Worst of Tolkien Art - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 08-03-2007, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE Ka

Genie Morgoth and His Forty Thieves

This one is probably the 'best' so far of Morgoth and his compadre, the Witch-King...

~ Critique Ka

Morgoth there looks suspiciously like the divil as played by Dave Grohl in the Tenacious D video Tribute...

...this is not the greatest art in the world...

Aiwendil · 08-03-2007, 11:05 AM

I honestly don't see what's so bad about the Hildebrandts' "Wedding of Aragorn and Arwen". Though most of the rest of those are quite bad. The worst is undoubtedly the "exotic dancer" Luthien. And while I'm generally a fan of Nasmith and a defender of Bakshi's movie, Ulmo and Sam are certainly not their respective strong points.

Bêthberry · 08-03-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

I honestly don't see what's so bad about the Hildebrandts' "Wedding of Aragorn and Arwen". Though most of the rest of those are quite bad. The worst is undoubtedly the "exotic dancer" Luthien. And while I'm generally a fan of Nasmith and a defender of Bakshi's movie, Ulmo and Sam are certainly not their respective strong points.

I think the Hildebrandts took their cue from that old postcard Tolkien had of his hiking trip in the Alps, the postcard with an old man on it that apparently provided some inspiration for Gandalf. This style is closely related to Swiss styles, which in my imagination belong with the illustrations of my girlhood edition of Heidi.

Some comments by davem and myself on Esty's other art thread, the good one, probably best belong on this thread:

Some thoughts on what makes for bad Tolkien art, from post #31 on the Tolkien the Artist thread.

davem · 08-04-2007, 01:13 AM

The style I'm most uncomfortable with is the 'mighty thewed barbarian' - which I find borders on a fascistic, Ubermensch approach, & totally alien to Tolkien's creation. Conan always defeats the demons & monsters & attains victory through his physical strength & use of weapons. Turin, for example, is an inversion of the Ubermensch ideal. In fact Tolkien seems to be pointing up the stupidity & falsity of such an 'ideal' in the real world. The image of Hurin I linked to earlier is a classic example of everything Tolkien's work condemns.

I recall an interview with one of the editors at Harper Collins discussing Alan Lee's M-e work. She stated that she preferred Lee's work to that of other Tolkien artists, because too many depictions of Tolkien's characters had them looking directly at us, but she felt that that was wrong, & that the 'view' should be the other way - we should gaze into their world, they shouldn't look out into ours. I take her point. We're looking at a world long gone & he imagery should reflect that - those beings & places have long since passed from the world. The imagery shouldn't be 'dynamic', or make us feel the events are happening 'now'.

'For God's sake, let us sit upon the ground & tell sad stories of the death of Kings'. In Tolkien's tales we are looking back on things that happened before recorded history, & its essential that that mood is communicated by the artist - M-e is not another world in which events are happening 'now', but this world many, many ages past. That's why Baynes' & Juchimov's illustrations (& Eric Fraser's 'woodcut' style illustrations for the Folio Society Hobbit & LotR) work so well for me. (I think this is why I especially disliked the movie characters' regular lapses into contemporary idiom - nothing about M-e should feel 'modern': it should always feel 'old' & long past. Perhaps this is why dramatisation can't really work as well as reading or hearing the story......)

alatar · 08-15-2007, 09:12 AM

Remembered this thread, and looking "The Return of the King" CD audiobook box in my vehicle, I thought that I had a ringer and got ready to scan the cover. I was shocked to see that Rowena Morill's "The Last Steward" was already on the list.

What's up with the blonde women looking as if they'd rather be anywhere else (like the beach, the Mall, etc) than at a weird ceremony where surfer Adonis gives a scepter to King Aragorn?

Boring!

Even the soldier behind the King has better things to look at. But maybe he's just following his King's lead as the new King can't even look at the Apollo wannabee, and so isn't even holding his hand in the right place to receive the gift. Maybe the Steward is just too beautiful to be observed directly, like an anti-Medusa.

Are any of these people in the same scene? You could see if you took a bunch of disparate images, cut them out and glued them to a page, resulting in a picture where everyone is looking somewhere else. But actually creating this image like this?

It must be my lack of appreciation for the arts...

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 08-16-2007, 04:02 PM

Agh, I don't think that Luthien would wear a swimming suit. Since she was an elven princess or something to that nature that she would wear something sort of dressish.

Lalaith · 08-17-2007, 12:07 PM

I´ve seen that belly-dancer Luthien pic before and it always made me laugh (in a dismayed sort of way). Beren the battle-worn soldier gets his R&R...the poor professor would have had a fit if he´d seen it.

Quote:

Here's a Hildebrandt drawing that has Aragorn telling his fishing story:

"And the one that got away was thiiiis big!"

As for this, it should be in crazy captions. "Oo, Aragorn, that was a really cool duck, but can you do the one when the dog moves his mouth and waggles his ears?"

08-04-2007, 01:13 AM	#4
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	The style I'm most uncomfortable with is the 'mighty thewed barbarian' - which I find borders on a fascistic, Ubermensch approach, & totally alien to Tolkien's creation. Conan always defeats the demons & monsters & attains victory through his physical strength & use of weapons. Turin, for example, is an inversion of the Ubermensch ideal. In fact Tolkien seems to be pointing up the stupidity & falsity of such an 'ideal' in the real world. The image of Hurin I linked to earlier is a classic example of everything Tolkien's work condemns. I recall an interview with one of the editors at Harper Collins discussing Alan Lee's M-e work. She stated that she preferred Lee's work to that of other Tolkien artists, because too many depictions of Tolkien's characters had them looking directly at us, but she felt that that was wrong, & that the 'view' should be the other way - we should gaze into their world, they shouldn't look out into ours. I take her point. We're looking at a world long gone & he imagery should reflect that - those beings & places have long since passed from the world. The imagery shouldn't be 'dynamic', or make us feel the events are happening 'now'. 'For God's sake, let us sit upon the ground & tell sad stories of the death of Kings'. In Tolkien's tales we are looking back on things that happened before recorded history, & its essential that that mood is communicated by the artist - M-e is not another world in which events are happening 'now', but this world many, many ages past. That's why Baynes' & Juchimov's illustrations (& Eric Fraser's 'woodcut' style illustrations for the Folio Society Hobbit & LotR) work so well for me. (I think this is why I especially disliked the movie characters' regular lapses into contemporary idiom - nothing about M-e should feel 'modern': it should always feel 'old' & long past. Perhaps this is why dramatisation can't really work as well as reading or hearing the story......) __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 08-04-2007 at 02:46 AM.

08-15-2007, 09:12 AM	#5
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Remembered this thread, and looking "The Return of the King" CD audiobook box in my vehicle, I thought that I had a ringer and got ready to scan the cover. I was shocked to see that Rowena Morill's "The Last Steward" was already on the list. What's up with the blonde women looking as if they'd rather be anywhere else (like the beach, the Mall, etc) than at a weird ceremony where surfer Adonis gives a scepter to King Aragorn? Boring! Even the soldier behind the King has better things to look at. But maybe he's just following his King's lead as the new King can't even look at the Apollo wannabee, and so isn't even holding his hand in the right place to receive the gift. Maybe the Steward is just too beautiful to be observed directly, like an anti-Medusa. Are any of these people in the same scene? You could see if you took a bunch of disparate images, cut them out and glued them to a page, resulting in a picture where everyone is looking somewhere else. But actually creating this image like this? It must be my lack of appreciation for the arts... __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

08-16-2007, 04:02 PM	#6
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	Agh, I don't think that Luthien would wear a swimming suit. Since she was an elven princess or something to that nature that she would wear something sort of dressish. __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

08-03-2007, 11:05 AM	#2
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	I honestly don't see what's so bad about the Hildebrandts' "Wedding of Aragorn and Arwen". Though most of the rest of those are quite bad. The worst is undoubtedly the "exotic dancer" Luthien. And while I'm generally a fan of Nasmith and a defender of Bakshi's movie, Ulmo and Sam are certainly not their respective strong points.