Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXXVI Game Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 07-28-2007, 10:28 AM

For the record I wasn't "holding my vote" , It was just that due to sleep and work it was either vote after about 2 posts or at lunchtime the next day. I am afraid that in the very limited time I had that I hadn't correctly grasped the situation - I thought voting was finishing at 3 our time and that Menel was a vote ahead of Dury and so the multiple lynch thing hadn't occurred. The full horror of the situation only became clear to me too late. I really didn't think Menel or Dury were guilty but obviously it wouldhave been better to lose just the one.....

**The Saucepan Man** · 07-28-2007, 10:51 AM

Durelin: Legate (Legate 1)
Menel: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 1)
Holby: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 1, Menel 1)
Shasta: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 1, Menel 2)
Phantom: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 2, Menel 2)
Legate: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 2)
Kath: Mithalwen (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 2, Mithalwen 1)
Brinniel: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1)
Mithalwen: Legate (Legate 2, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1)
SpM: Legate (Legate 3, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1)

Did not vote: Lalwende, Gil-Galad, Captain of Despair

I was suspicious of the Durelin and Menel bandwagons yesterDay and I remain so, as they gathered pace quickly and relatively early on. As I said, the phantom’s vote for Durelin, which put her level on 2 votes with Menel, looks rather suspiciously random for him and, given that he is the only Durelin voter still with us, I do have some concerns about him, and not just the paranoid ones that I always have when playing with him.

I suspect that there was one Wolf, but no more, among the Menel voters. Brinniel is dead, so that leaves Holby and Shasta. At the time both of them voted, there had, I think, already been a fair amount of suspicion cast in Menel's direction. I would like to hear more from both of them, but unfortunately it appears that Holby will not be with us toDay.

If there was a Wolf among those who voted for Legate, then it has to be Mith, as Durelin is dead and I am innocent. So far, however, Mith doesn’t strike me as Wolfish.

Other than the no-voters, the only person not to vote for one of those lynched was Kath. Her vote for Mithalwen, who had very little prospect of being lynched, was a very safe vote. Kath is therefore high in my suspicions at the moment, although it seems that she too may not be around much toDay.

Finally, we have the no-voters. There could well be a Wolf there, particularly given the consequences of their no-votes. As I said, Lal has given an explanation on the game thread, and we have to believe her on that, although it doesn‘t follow that she is innocent. As for Gil and CoD, there is little to go on, so it would be nice to hear more from them toDay too.

So, on the basis of the voting, I am most suspicious of Kath, and I think that there may well be a Wolf in each of the Holby/Shasta and Gil/CoD duos. Other than that, I have some concerns about the phantom and Lal, but currently think Mith more likely innocent than not.

It's still early Days though (provided we don't mess up again toDay).

Mithalwen · 07-28-2007, 11:15 AM

I am inclined to agree that there is likely to be a wolf in the non voters - why would they spoil a perfect situation? I need to have a serious read through. Need to check something...

the phantom · 07-28-2007, 11:35 AM

I'm looking through the posts of each living person one at a time. I've finished looking at Brin though, and I don't see anything at all that would send up a Seer-flag in the mind of a WW.

Very odd.

I'll be back in a bit.

Mithalwen · 07-28-2007, 11:44 AM

If we are draging up Fea's last village .... you might say you won fair and square Sauce but that doesn't change the fact that I was right......

As for Brin ... my guess is that the wolves chose someone who hadn't attracted much suspicion either by words or vote.

I don't see anyone suggesting that they are gifted and no wolf pack is going to kill an innocent Gil during the night unless he had revealed himself as gifted . There is always too good a chance of getting him lynched.

Mithalwen · 07-28-2007, 12:13 PM

OK I have little time lesft so I must decide soon. Right there are nine of us left 3 wolves one seer.

Brinniel was one of the higher posting players yesterday with 5 posts. Some were short but she maintained a good presence. I don't know if Fea actively picked the wolves but if this is classic ww should there not be Loud, quiet and flying under the radar wolf?

Of course there might be 3 quiet/inexperienced or three legends but ..... from my perspective (and I am innocent btw), there are TP, SpM and Kath who are legendary and tricksy in various ways. Holby who I have played with seldom but who has a fearsome reputation. Lal who was a wolf the only time we met and I am strugling to avoid prejudice based on this.

Shasta I have played with but not enough to read with any confidence, Gil who is always baffling but occasionally touched by genius and CoD an unknown quantity as far as WW goes but I know he can spin a fine yarn.

My guess is 1 wolf among hte last 3 and 2 from the others but of course this is one of those instinctive judgements that Sauce will probably find annoying

Kath has been quiet, I can't make head nor tail of Lal's first post and in her second she started a commentary on others behaviour without actually contributing which can be a wolf trick... or it could have been because there was little else to do. No vote was concerning.

Holby I find most suspicious at the moment. Her list could have just been a "fishing trip" but it could have been a way of mentioning folk in a way that might be discounted... . So have to go but I am sorry for picking an absentee - a cheap shot but my best for now. Good luck.

++ Holbytlass

the phantom · 07-28-2007, 12:22 PM

I've almost finished my look at everyone. Unfortunately, I have a little errand that will not wait.

I'll say this much right now- from what I've reread, there were other individuals who looked liked the Seer much much more than Brin did. But naturally I'm not going to discuss who my Seer suspects are.

I'll be back within two hours, this time to post actual information.

CaptainofDespair · 07-28-2007, 02:55 PM

Oh my...

Well, I do apologize for not voting. It might have actually done something (which is to say, it usually does nothing), like prevent a triple lynching. I was unable to vote when I could have, as Saucepan Man was the last person to post (which came right after my only one) and I thus had absolutely nothing to go on. Work then called (after a good sleep), leaving me occupied until 4pm EST the next day.

It would have been unwise to just throw a vote out there...

In any case, I will try to be more helpful today, if possible.

Brinniel's death does not provide any answers, or even a hint to those answers at the moment. It seems rather...random? She did not exhibit much that would lead her to be a target in my mind. And so it appears to be more of a shot in the dark, so to speak, than anything else.

And I cannot decipher any wolf-ish behavior out of what occurred during the time leading up to the triple lynching. Perhaps hindsight makes it seem more like human error than it is, but having not been present I cannot "feel" anything within the posts. Since this Day is a weekend, I am free and should be able to participate more to the extent that I can be in "the moment" and thus pick up on intangibles that are lost after the fact.

the phantom · 07-28-2007, 03:18 PM

All right, I'm back.

HOLBY
Vote choice and timing: not wolfish
Posts: 3, 20, 21
Feel: Post 20 makes me slightly uncomfortable, but the others are fine.

MITH
Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish
Posts: 5, 6, 36, 37
Feel: Nothing in her posts sets off alarms. She's playing well.

GIL
Vote choice and timing: no vote
Posts: 7
Feel: There's not much to go on.

LAL
Vote choice and timing: no vote
Posts: 9, 30, 32, 35
Feel: Posts 9 and 30 rub me the wrong way, and I don't like her non-vote.

KATH
Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish
Posts: 12, 33
Feel: I'm not getting a feel for her, and it bothers me.

CAP
Vote choice and timing: no vote
Posts: 14
Feel: He does not make me particularly suspicious. But we don't have much info.

SPM
Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish
Posts: 15, 38, 39
Feel: He is not coming across as innocent or guilty to me. Hmm...

SHASTA
Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish
Posts: 22, 29
Feel: His list reminds me of Boro, Ang, and me while Werewolfing.

TP
Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish
Posts: 23, 24, 25
Feel: He was quiet yesterday, but then so was everyone else.

My leanings....

I won't vote for the phantom (duh!).

I don't want to vote for Mith, Kath, Gil, or Cap at this time.

Lalwendë · 07-28-2007, 11:59 AM

You can blame the Daily Mail and their OTT reporting of policies for me not voting - you can blame them for a lot of things no doubt, but you can blame them for that. I'm still annoyed now...

I wasn't going to vote for anyone on that pack anyway - however I can't honestly say that had I managed to get back to my desk on time that I wouldn't have changed my mind seeing a triple lynch coming up. There you go - it's up to you if you choose to punish me for it. I personally don't think you should.

Anyway, I want to know about Gil and Captain. Why didn't they vote?

As for the voting pattern, Shasta jumped in at a very 'safe' point there. That's odd to me.

Kath didn't raise my hackles there too much - it's reasonable for a psychologist to want to 'test' someone

Unless she's in league with Mith of course. But then the point at which Sauce jumps in and votes would be more suspicious than the point at which Mith does it. Unless Mith, Sauce & Kath are in cahoots - and I don't think Mith and Sauce mention each other too much...

Phantom foxes me right now...as does Holby.

07-28-2007, 10:28 AM	#1
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	For the record I wasn't "holding my vote" , It was just that due to sleep and work it was either vote after about 2 posts or at lunchtime the next day. I am afraid that in the very limited time I had that I hadn't correctly grasped the situation - I thought voting was finishing at 3 our time and that Menel was a vote ahead of Dury and so the multiple lynch thing hadn't occurred. The full horror of the situation only became clear to me too late. I really didn't think Menel or Dury were guilty but obviously it wouldhave been better to lose just the one..... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-28-2007, 10:51 AM	#2
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Day 1 voting Durelin: Legate (Legate 1) Menel: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 1) Holby: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 1, Menel 1) Shasta: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 1, Menel 2) Phantom: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 2, Menel 2) Legate: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 2) Kath: Mithalwen (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 2, Mithalwen 1) Brinniel: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1) Mithalwen: Legate (Legate 2, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1) SpM: Legate (Legate 3, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1) Did not vote: Lalwende, Gil-Galad, Captain of Despair I was suspicious of the Durelin and Menel bandwagons yesterDay and I remain so, as they gathered pace quickly and relatively early on. As I said, the phantom’s vote for Durelin, which put her level on 2 votes with Menel, looks rather suspiciously random for him and, given that he is the only Durelin voter still with us, I do have some concerns about him, and not just the paranoid ones that I always have when playing with him. I suspect that there was one Wolf, but no more, among the Menel voters. Brinniel is dead, so that leaves Holby and Shasta. At the time both of them voted, there had, I think, already been a fair amount of suspicion cast in Menel's direction. I would like to hear more from both of them, but unfortunately it appears that Holby will not be with us toDay. If there was a Wolf among those who voted for Legate, then it has to be Mith, as Durelin is dead and I am innocent. So far, however, Mith doesn’t strike me as Wolfish. Other than the no-voters, the only person not to vote for one of those lynched was Kath. Her vote for Mithalwen, who had very little prospect of being lynched, was a very safe vote. Kath is therefore high in my suspicions at the moment, although it seems that she too may not be around much toDay. Finally, we have the no-voters. There could well be a Wolf there, particularly given the consequences of their no-votes. As I said, Lal has given an explanation on the game thread, and we have to believe her on that, although it doesn‘t follow that she is innocent. As for Gil and CoD, there is little to go on, so it would be nice to hear more from them toDay too. So, on the basis of the voting, I am most suspicious of Kath, and I think that there may well be a Wolf in each of the Holby/Shasta and Gil/CoD duos. Other than that, I have some concerns about the phantom and Lal, but currently think Mith more likely innocent than not. It's still early Days though (provided we don't mess up again toDay). __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

07-28-2007, 11:15 AM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	I am inclined to agree that there is likely to be a wolf in the non voters - why would they spoil a perfect situation? I need to have a serious read through. Need to check something... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-28-2007, 11:35 AM	#4
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	I'm looking through the posts of each living person one at a time. I've finished looking at Brin though, and I don't see anything at all that would send up a Seer-flag in the mind of a WW. Very odd. I'll be back in a bit. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

07-28-2007, 11:44 AM	#5
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	If we are draging up Fea's last village .... you might say you won fair and square Sauce but that doesn't change the fact that I was right...... As for Brin ... my guess is that the wolves chose someone who hadn't attracted much suspicion either by words or vote. I don't see anyone suggesting that they are gifted and no wolf pack is going to kill an innocent Gil during the night unless he had revealed himself as gifted . There is always too good a chance of getting him lynched. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-28-2007, 12:13 PM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	OK I have little time lesft so I must decide soon. Right there are nine of us left 3 wolves one seer. Brinniel was one of the higher posting players yesterday with 5 posts. Some were short but she maintained a good presence. I don't know if Fea actively picked the wolves but if this is classic ww should there not be Loud, quiet and flying under the radar wolf? Of course there might be 3 quiet/inexperienced or three legends but ..... from my perspective (and I am innocent btw), there are TP, SpM and Kath who are legendary and tricksy in various ways. Holby who I have played with seldom but who has a fearsome reputation. Lal who was a wolf the only time we met and I am strugling to avoid prejudice based on this. Shasta I have played with but not enough to read with any confidence, Gil who is always baffling but occasionally touched by genius and CoD an unknown quantity as far as WW goes but I know he can spin a fine yarn. My guess is 1 wolf among hte last 3 and 2 from the others but of course this is one of those instinctive judgements that Sauce will probably find annoying Kath has been quiet, I can't make head nor tail of Lal's first post and in her second she started a commentary on others behaviour without actually contributing which can be a wolf trick... or it could have been because there was little else to do. No vote was concerning. Holby I find most suspicious at the moment. Her list could have just been a "fishing trip" but it could have been a way of mentioning folk in a way that might be discounted... . So have to go but I am sorry for picking an absentee - a cheap shot but my best for now. Good luck. ++ Holbytlass __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-28-2007, 12:22 PM	#7
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	I've almost finished my look at everyone. Unfortunately, I have a little errand that will not wait. I'll say this much right now- from what I've reread, there were other individuals who looked liked the Seer much much more than Brin did. But naturally I'm not going to discuss who my Seer suspects are. I'll be back within two hours, this time to post actual information. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

07-28-2007, 02:55 PM	#8
CaptainofDespair Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 413	Oh my... Well, I do apologize for not voting. It might have actually done something (which is to say, it usually does nothing), like prevent a triple lynching. I was unable to vote when I could have, as Saucepan Man was the last person to post (which came right after my only one) and I thus had absolutely nothing to go on. Work then called (after a good sleep), leaving me occupied until 4pm EST the next day. It would have been unwise to just throw a vote out there... In any case, I will try to be more helpful today, if possible. Brinniel's death does not provide any answers, or even a hint to those answers at the moment. It seems rather...random? She did not exhibit much that would lead her to be a target in my mind. And so it appears to be more of a shot in the dark, so to speak, than anything else. And I cannot decipher any wolf-ish behavior out of what occurred during the time leading up to the triple lynching. Perhaps hindsight makes it seem more like human error than it is, but having not been present I cannot "feel" anything within the posts. Since this Day is a weekend, I am free and should be able to participate more to the extent that I can be in "the moment" and thus pick up on intangibles that are lost after the fact.

07-28-2007, 03:18 PM	#9
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	All right, I'm back. HOLBY Vote choice and timing: not wolfish Posts: 3, 20, 21 Feel: Post 20 makes me slightly uncomfortable, but the others are fine. MITH Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish Posts: 5, 6, 36, 37 Feel: Nothing in her posts sets off alarms. She's playing well. GIL Vote choice and timing: no vote Posts: 7 Feel: There's not much to go on. LAL Vote choice and timing: no vote Posts: 9, 30, 32, 35 Feel: Posts 9 and 30 rub me the wrong way, and I don't like her non-vote. KATH Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish Posts: 12, 33 Feel: I'm not getting a feel for her, and it bothers me. CAP Vote choice and timing: no vote Posts: 14 Feel: He does not make me particularly suspicious. But we don't have much info. SPM Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish Posts: 15, 38, 39 Feel: He is not coming across as innocent or guilty to me. Hmm... SHASTA Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish Posts: 22, 29 Feel: His list reminds me of Boro, Ang, and me while Werewolfing. TP Vote choice and timing: slightly wolfish Posts: 23, 24, 25 Feel: He was quiet yesterday, but then so was everyone else. My leanings.... I won't vote for the phantom (duh!). I don't want to vote for Mith, Kath, Gil, or Cap at this time. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

07-28-2007, 11:59 AM	#10
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	You can blame the Daily Mail and their OTT reporting of policies for me not voting - you can blame them for a lot of things no doubt, but you can blame them for that. I'm still annoyed now... I wasn't going to vote for anyone on that pack anyway - however I can't honestly say that had I managed to get back to my desk on time that I wouldn't have changed my mind seeing a triple lynch coming up. There you go - it's up to you if you choose to punish me for it. I personally don't think you should. Anyway, I want to know about Gil and Captain. Why didn't they vote? As for the voting pattern, Shasta jumped in at a very 'safe' point there. That's odd to me. Kath didn't raise my hackles there too much - it's reasonable for a psychologist to want to 'test' someone Unless she's in league with Mith of course. But then the point at which Sauce jumps in and votes would be more suspicious than the point at which Mith does it. Unless Mith, Sauce & Kath are in cahoots - and I don't think Mith and Sauce mention each other too much... Phantom foxes me right now...as does Holby. __________________ Gordon's alive!