Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXXVI Game Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**The Saucepan Man** · 07-28-2007, 10:17 AM

What a complete mess! I am sorry for my part in it, but I has to vote when I did, as I had to rush off to a meeting. But even after my cross-post with Mithalwen, it wouldn't have happened had one of the three who didn't vote bothered to do so. Lal has explained in the Admin thread why she missed voting (although it seems from what she said that she wouldn't have broken the three-way tie anyway), but I am somewhat suspicious of the no-votes from Gil and CoD. If one of them is a Wolf and was around at the time, all they had to do was sit back silently and watch the car crash happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

That's why I hate voting early- cause then I'm not around to control things at the end. I'm not doing that again. I'm going to wake up an hour earlier than usual just so I can vote at the end.

I was thinking much the same, but if we all hold our vote 'til the very end then chaos could ensue once more. Those of us around at the end (and I plan to be) must make sure that we avoid cross-voting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

Let's do it!

No, let's not ...

So, why Brinniel? She was fairly quiet, but then most of us were. I can't see anything to suggest that she might have been the Seer, but it's worth looking at who she suspected. She didn't make any strong accusations, but the names that she mentioned were Menel, Legate, Durelin and the phantom. The phantom is the only one of those still alive so, on the face of it, her death points to him. However, I wonder whether the phantom would be that clumsy. If anything, I suspect that it may have been an attempt to frame him. Then again, I am slightly wary of his vote yesterDay, so I am most certainly not crossing him off my list. A phantom Wolf is a dangerous thing indeed.

My thoughts on the voting coming up.

Mithalwen · 07-28-2007, 10:28 AM

For the record I wasn't "holding my vote" , It was just that due to sleep and work it was either vote after about 2 posts or at lunchtime the next day. I am afraid that in the very limited time I had that I hadn't correctly grasped the situation - I thought voting was finishing at 3 our time and that Menel was a vote ahead of Dury and so the multiple lynch thing hadn't occurred. The full horror of the situation only became clear to me too late. I really didn't think Menel or Dury were guilty but obviously it wouldhave been better to lose just the one.....

**The Saucepan Man** · 07-28-2007, 10:51 AM

Durelin: Legate (Legate 1)
Menel: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 1)
Holby: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 1, Menel 1)
Shasta: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 1, Menel 2)
Phantom: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 2, Menel 2)
Legate: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 2)
Kath: Mithalwen (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 2, Mithalwen 1)
Brinniel: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1)
Mithalwen: Legate (Legate 2, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1)
SpM: Legate (Legate 3, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1)

Did not vote: Lalwende, Gil-Galad, Captain of Despair

I was suspicious of the Durelin and Menel bandwagons yesterDay and I remain so, as they gathered pace quickly and relatively early on. As I said, the phantom’s vote for Durelin, which put her level on 2 votes with Menel, looks rather suspiciously random for him and, given that he is the only Durelin voter still with us, I do have some concerns about him, and not just the paranoid ones that I always have when playing with him.

I suspect that there was one Wolf, but no more, among the Menel voters. Brinniel is dead, so that leaves Holby and Shasta. At the time both of them voted, there had, I think, already been a fair amount of suspicion cast in Menel's direction. I would like to hear more from both of them, but unfortunately it appears that Holby will not be with us toDay.

If there was a Wolf among those who voted for Legate, then it has to be Mith, as Durelin is dead and I am innocent. So far, however, Mith doesn’t strike me as Wolfish.

Other than the no-voters, the only person not to vote for one of those lynched was Kath. Her vote for Mithalwen, who had very little prospect of being lynched, was a very safe vote. Kath is therefore high in my suspicions at the moment, although it seems that she too may not be around much toDay.

Finally, we have the no-voters. There could well be a Wolf there, particularly given the consequences of their no-votes. As I said, Lal has given an explanation on the game thread, and we have to believe her on that, although it doesn‘t follow that she is innocent. As for Gil and CoD, there is little to go on, so it would be nice to hear more from them toDay too.

So, on the basis of the voting, I am most suspicious of Kath, and I think that there may well be a Wolf in each of the Holby/Shasta and Gil/CoD duos. Other than that, I have some concerns about the phantom and Lal, but currently think Mith more likely innocent than not.

It's still early Days though (provided we don't mess up again toDay).

Mithalwen · 07-28-2007, 11:15 AM

I am inclined to agree that there is likely to be a wolf in the non voters - why would they spoil a perfect situation? I need to have a serious read through. Need to check something...

the phantom · 07-28-2007, 11:35 AM

I'm looking through the posts of each living person one at a time. I've finished looking at Brin though, and I don't see anything at all that would send up a Seer-flag in the mind of a WW.

Very odd.

I'll be back in a bit.

Mithalwen · 07-28-2007, 11:44 AM

If we are draging up Fea's last village .... you might say you won fair and square Sauce but that doesn't change the fact that I was right......

As for Brin ... my guess is that the wolves chose someone who hadn't attracted much suspicion either by words or vote.

I don't see anyone suggesting that they are gifted and no wolf pack is going to kill an innocent Gil during the night unless he had revealed himself as gifted . There is always too good a chance of getting him lynched.

Mithalwen · 07-28-2007, 12:13 PM

OK I have little time lesft so I must decide soon. Right there are nine of us left 3 wolves one seer.

Brinniel was one of the higher posting players yesterday with 5 posts. Some were short but she maintained a good presence. I don't know if Fea actively picked the wolves but if this is classic ww should there not be Loud, quiet and flying under the radar wolf?

Of course there might be 3 quiet/inexperienced or three legends but ..... from my perspective (and I am innocent btw), there are TP, SpM and Kath who are legendary and tricksy in various ways. Holby who I have played with seldom but who has a fearsome reputation. Lal who was a wolf the only time we met and I am strugling to avoid prejudice based on this.

Shasta I have played with but not enough to read with any confidence, Gil who is always baffling but occasionally touched by genius and CoD an unknown quantity as far as WW goes but I know he can spin a fine yarn.

My guess is 1 wolf among hte last 3 and 2 from the others but of course this is one of those instinctive judgements that Sauce will probably find annoying

Kath has been quiet, I can't make head nor tail of Lal's first post and in her second she started a commentary on others behaviour without actually contributing which can be a wolf trick... or it could have been because there was little else to do. No vote was concerning.

Holby I find most suspicious at the moment. Her list could have just been a "fishing trip" but it could have been a way of mentioning folk in a way that might be discounted... . So have to go but I am sorry for picking an absentee - a cheap shot but my best for now. Good luck.

++ Holbytlass

the phantom · 07-28-2007, 12:22 PM

I've almost finished my look at everyone. Unfortunately, I have a little errand that will not wait.

I'll say this much right now- from what I've reread, there were other individuals who looked liked the Seer much much more than Brin did. But naturally I'm not going to discuss who my Seer suspects are.

I'll be back within two hours, this time to post actual information.

Lalwendë · 07-28-2007, 11:59 AM

You can blame the Daily Mail and their OTT reporting of policies for me not voting - you can blame them for a lot of things no doubt, but you can blame them for that. I'm still annoyed now...

I wasn't going to vote for anyone on that pack anyway - however I can't honestly say that had I managed to get back to my desk on time that I wouldn't have changed my mind seeing a triple lynch coming up. There you go - it's up to you if you choose to punish me for it. I personally don't think you should.

Anyway, I want to know about Gil and Captain. Why didn't they vote?

As for the voting pattern, Shasta jumped in at a very 'safe' point there. That's odd to me.

Kath didn't raise my hackles there too much - it's reasonable for a psychologist to want to 'test' someone

Unless she's in league with Mith of course. But then the point at which Sauce jumps in and votes would be more suspicious than the point at which Mith does it. Unless Mith, Sauce & Kath are in cahoots - and I don't think Mith and Sauce mention each other too much...

Phantom foxes me right now...as does Holby.

07-28-2007, 10:28 AM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	For the record I wasn't "holding my vote" , It was just that due to sleep and work it was either vote after about 2 posts or at lunchtime the next day. I am afraid that in the very limited time I had that I hadn't correctly grasped the situation - I thought voting was finishing at 3 our time and that Menel was a vote ahead of Dury and so the multiple lynch thing hadn't occurred. The full horror of the situation only became clear to me too late. I really didn't think Menel or Dury were guilty but obviously it wouldhave been better to lose just the one..... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-28-2007, 10:51 AM	#3
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Day 1 voting Durelin: Legate (Legate 1) Menel: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 1) Holby: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 1, Menel 1) Shasta: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 1, Menel 2) Phantom: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 2, Menel 2) Legate: Durelin (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 2) Kath: Mithalwen (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 2, Mithalwen 1) Brinniel: Menel (Legate 1, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1) Mithalwen: Legate (Legate 2, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1) SpM: Legate (Legate 3, Durelin 3, Menel 3, Mithalwen 1) Did not vote: Lalwende, Gil-Galad, Captain of Despair I was suspicious of the Durelin and Menel bandwagons yesterDay and I remain so, as they gathered pace quickly and relatively early on. As I said, the phantom’s vote for Durelin, which put her level on 2 votes with Menel, looks rather suspiciously random for him and, given that he is the only Durelin voter still with us, I do have some concerns about him, and not just the paranoid ones that I always have when playing with him. I suspect that there was one Wolf, but no more, among the Menel voters. Brinniel is dead, so that leaves Holby and Shasta. At the time both of them voted, there had, I think, already been a fair amount of suspicion cast in Menel's direction. I would like to hear more from both of them, but unfortunately it appears that Holby will not be with us toDay. If there was a Wolf among those who voted for Legate, then it has to be Mith, as Durelin is dead and I am innocent. So far, however, Mith doesn’t strike me as Wolfish. Other than the no-voters, the only person not to vote for one of those lynched was Kath. Her vote for Mithalwen, who had very little prospect of being lynched, was a very safe vote. Kath is therefore high in my suspicions at the moment, although it seems that she too may not be around much toDay. Finally, we have the no-voters. There could well be a Wolf there, particularly given the consequences of their no-votes. As I said, Lal has given an explanation on the game thread, and we have to believe her on that, although it doesn‘t follow that she is innocent. As for Gil and CoD, there is little to go on, so it would be nice to hear more from them toDay too. So, on the basis of the voting, I am most suspicious of Kath, and I think that there may well be a Wolf in each of the Holby/Shasta and Gil/CoD duos. Other than that, I have some concerns about the phantom and Lal, but currently think Mith more likely innocent than not. It's still early Days though (provided we don't mess up again toDay). __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

07-28-2007, 11:15 AM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I am inclined to agree that there is likely to be a wolf in the non voters - why would they spoil a perfect situation? I need to have a serious read through. Need to check something... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-28-2007, 11:35 AM	#5
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	I'm looking through the posts of each living person one at a time. I've finished looking at Brin though, and I don't see anything at all that would send up a Seer-flag in the mind of a WW. Very odd. I'll be back in a bit. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

07-28-2007, 11:44 AM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	If we are draging up Fea's last village .... you might say you won fair and square Sauce but that doesn't change the fact that I was right...... As for Brin ... my guess is that the wolves chose someone who hadn't attracted much suspicion either by words or vote. I don't see anyone suggesting that they are gifted and no wolf pack is going to kill an innocent Gil during the night unless he had revealed himself as gifted . There is always too good a chance of getting him lynched. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-28-2007, 12:13 PM	#7
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	OK I have little time lesft so I must decide soon. Right there are nine of us left 3 wolves one seer. Brinniel was one of the higher posting players yesterday with 5 posts. Some were short but she maintained a good presence. I don't know if Fea actively picked the wolves but if this is classic ww should there not be Loud, quiet and flying under the radar wolf? Of course there might be 3 quiet/inexperienced or three legends but ..... from my perspective (and I am innocent btw), there are TP, SpM and Kath who are legendary and tricksy in various ways. Holby who I have played with seldom but who has a fearsome reputation. Lal who was a wolf the only time we met and I am strugling to avoid prejudice based on this. Shasta I have played with but not enough to read with any confidence, Gil who is always baffling but occasionally touched by genius and CoD an unknown quantity as far as WW goes but I know he can spin a fine yarn. My guess is 1 wolf among hte last 3 and 2 from the others but of course this is one of those instinctive judgements that Sauce will probably find annoying Kath has been quiet, I can't make head nor tail of Lal's first post and in her second she started a commentary on others behaviour without actually contributing which can be a wolf trick... or it could have been because there was little else to do. No vote was concerning. Holby I find most suspicious at the moment. Her list could have just been a "fishing trip" but it could have been a way of mentioning folk in a way that might be discounted... . So have to go but I am sorry for picking an absentee - a cheap shot but my best for now. Good luck. ++ Holbytlass __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-28-2007, 12:22 PM	#8
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	I've almost finished my look at everyone. Unfortunately, I have a little errand that will not wait. I'll say this much right now- from what I've reread, there were other individuals who looked liked the Seer much much more than Brin did. But naturally I'm not going to discuss who my Seer suspects are. I'll be back within two hours, this time to post actual information. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

07-28-2007, 11:59 AM	#9
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	You can blame the Daily Mail and their OTT reporting of policies for me not voting - you can blame them for a lot of things no doubt, but you can blame them for that. I'm still annoyed now... I wasn't going to vote for anyone on that pack anyway - however I can't honestly say that had I managed to get back to my desk on time that I wouldn't have changed my mind seeing a triple lynch coming up. There you go - it's up to you if you choose to punish me for it. I personally don't think you should. Anyway, I want to know about Gil and Captain. Why didn't they vote? As for the voting pattern, Shasta jumped in at a very 'safe' point there. That's odd to me. Kath didn't raise my hackles there too much - it's reasonable for a psychologist to want to 'test' someone Unless she's in league with Mith of course. But then the point at which Sauce jumps in and votes would be more suspicious than the point at which Mith does it. Unless Mith, Sauce & Kath are in cahoots - and I don't think Mith and Sauce mention each other too much... Phantom foxes me right now...as does Holby. __________________ Gordon's alive!