Teacher's Bad Rowling Advice - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nogrod · 07-10-2007, 02:28 PM

I try to come more into the topic this time (sorry about the last one, I got a bit carried away with the associations... that's what happens when one is up too late and drinks wine to accompany himself...

).

I think some of the reasons for all this adult/modernist scorn for fantasy is based on some quite simple things.

Like associating fantasy to the fairy-tales for the children - from which every decent adult should grow up from. Now princes and princesses, dragons, valiant deeds, honour, ideals to die for, happy endings... c'mon! Nice and educative for kids but...

Like looking at the general preconception of fantasy with it's widely spread half-porn imagery from Conan Barbarian to mass-fantasy book-covers. So fantasies indeed for nerds... (wasn't it that the creator of Conan was a small and grey office clerk or something? Would fit the general scorn nicely)

Like associating the fantasy to the not-here, not-serious, not emancipatory literature. Using old forms of storytelling are initially bad for any modernist and the word escapism has been heard quite a many times as well.

And stuff like that...

davem · 07-10-2007, 03:07 PM

And yet it could be argued that 'once upon a time' all stories were 'fantasy' stories - myth, legend, fairytale & the like. Folkore is magical lore. I wonder whether its to do with the loss of belief in real magic. Once the whole world was magical, but for too many now it isn't. We have to escape into a secondary world where magic is real because its not real in the primary. Perhaps it was the enlightenment, & the drive to 'liberate' humanity from 'superstition'.

Whatever, 'magic' has been relegated to the 'nursery' or to 'children's books', & any book which posits the reality of magic is considered to be a 'children's book' by the 'literati' & teh 'educational establishment' . Its the subject matter alone which makes it a 'children's book' rather than the style or themes explored. Hence CoH is a 'children's book' - or at least a 'nerd's book' - because it contains Elves, a dragon & a hero with a magic sword despite the fact that it explores themes of pride, sacrifice & , of course, incest. The book cannot be taken seriously because a serious book would not contain Elves & dragons.

That said, most of the stuff published as 'fantasy' literature is actually trash, & aimed at teenage boys & most writers of fantasy do aim their work at that audience. So it could be argued that the writers & publishers have a particular audience in mind & are themselves responsible for the kind of fantasy we get. I don't read fantasy, so I don't know how unique CoH is, but from the reviews I've read of it it seems it is far darker than the usual fare & many fantasy fans find it very uncomfortable reading.

So, its not 'fantasy' per se that's the problem, but the kind of fantasy that's out there. However, it appears that all fantasy is judged by this 'bad', juvenile, trash - as if there is a belief that fantasy cannot be anything other than nerd literature. If a book is a fantasy novel it must be 'escapist nonsense', fit only for children, or adults with the mental age of children.

Hence, rather than tell older children they should be reading (or writing) 'good', grown up, fantasy, they tell them that they should leave the fantasy books behind altogether.

07-10-2007, 02:28 PM	#1
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	I try to come more into the topic this time (sorry about the last one, I got a bit carried away with the associations... that's what happens when one is up too late and drinks wine to accompany himself... ). I think some of the reasons for all this adult/modernist scorn for fantasy is based on some quite simple things. Like associating fantasy to the fairy-tales for the children - from which every decent adult should grow up from. Now princes and princesses, dragons, valiant deeds, honour, ideals to die for, happy endings... c'mon! Nice and educative for kids but... Like looking at the general preconception of fantasy with it's widely spread half-porn imagery from Conan Barbarian to mass-fantasy book-covers. So fantasies indeed for nerds... (wasn't it that the creator of Conan was a small and grey office clerk or something? Would fit the general scorn nicely) Like associating the fantasy to the not-here, not-serious, not emancipatory literature. Using old forms of storytelling are initially bad for any modernist and the word escapism has been heard quite a many times as well. And stuff like that... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

07-10-2007, 03:07 PM	#2
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	And yet it could be argued that 'once upon a time' all stories were 'fantasy' stories - myth, legend, fairytale & the like. Folkore is magical lore. I wonder whether its to do with the loss of belief in real magic. Once the whole world was magical, but for too many now it isn't. We have to escape into a secondary world where magic is real because its not real in the primary. Perhaps it was the enlightenment, & the drive to 'liberate' humanity from 'superstition'. Whatever, 'magic' has been relegated to the 'nursery' or to 'children's books', & any book which posits the reality of magic is considered to be a 'children's book' by the 'literati' & teh 'educational establishment' . Its the subject matter alone which makes it a 'children's book' rather than the style or themes explored. Hence CoH is a 'children's book' - or at least a 'nerd's book' - because it contains Elves, a dragon & a hero with a magic sword despite the fact that it explores themes of pride, sacrifice & , of course, incest. The book cannot be taken seriously because a serious book would not contain Elves & dragons. That said, most of the stuff published as 'fantasy' literature is actually trash, & aimed at teenage boys & most writers of fantasy do aim their work at that audience. So it could be argued that the writers & publishers have a particular audience in mind & are themselves responsible for the kind of fantasy we get. I don't read fantasy, so I don't know how unique CoH is, but from the reviews I've read of it it seems it is far darker than the usual fare & many fantasy fans find it very uncomfortable reading. So, its not 'fantasy' per se that's the problem, but the kind of fantasy that's out there. However, it appears that all fantasy is judged by this 'bad', juvenile, trash - as if there is a belief that fantasy cannot be anything other than nerd literature. If a book is a fantasy novel it must be 'escapist nonsense', fit only for children, or adults with the mental age of children. Hence, rather than tell older children they should be reading (or writing) 'good', grown up, fantasy, they tell them that they should leave the fantasy books behind altogether. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."