Admin thread for WWXXXV: Werewolves among the Wolf-men

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

One more thing... It is a pleasure to read these Nightly discussions between you two Brinn and Macalaure. But you seem to be much more alive during the Nights than on Days... And that's the curse. And with this bunch of outlaws even more than with some other villages. This sleeping-curse was just too heavy on this village.

Well, I thought I contributed a fair amount during the Days, but when I think about it, I guess it wasn't all that much. But there were many factors following that:

1. Many things I discussed with Mac (Rikae's innocence, possible Gifteds) I could not discuss publicly during the Day without revealing. And talking about Gifteds in the presence of wolves is just silly. It's a different environment talking to an ally because you have nothing to hide. Also, I didn't want to reveal to much during the Day that might make the wolves see my connection to Mac.

2. Me being a little more than worried about getting myself killed early on. I know I haven't survived well in the past, and with someone else's life relying on mine, I was even more nervous. I guess after Day 3, I was a bit bolder...I think Rikae mentioned that somewhere...

3. Roleplaying. Don't get me wrong- I really loved roleplaying this time. It gave the game a unique touch, plus it worked well with the small number. But because of it I didn't post as much. I often reveal my opinions through lists and such...and we could only do a limited amount here. At Night, however, I didn't have to worry about roleplaying.

I hope that explains everything. Sorry if I wasn't as useful during the first Days as I could've been. People who know me well know I am a quiet person and not exactly bold; so careful is just what I do.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And while the narration said that Beleg had to wake Turín up it seemed that Turín was a "sleeper" and thence a "quiet player" and that we should pay heed to it if we wished to lynch the quiets (which basically is the strategy I strongly back). Remember I had no idea who Turín was - like no one else but Beleg had. You can'ät blame me for not guessing it right now can you?

I didn't suspect you just because of that misinterpretation. But the fact that you kept bringing it up and seemed to use it as a basis for some of your arguments is what I found odd. I recall once thinking that perhaps as a wolf you hinted that Turin could be a sleeper because the other wolf was actually one and perhaps you were trying to draw villagers away from them. Perhaps you never meant it as anything significant; just a mere suggestion of a possibility...but for some reason it stood out to me. Anyways, I apologise if this explaining isn't exactly clear; I'm half-asleep right now...

Interesting reads, tgwbs. So, you were sort of onto me by Night 3.. And I find it funny to see how such little things can cause a missed-kill. I'll be sure to remember that next time and not judge it on who's reliable and who's not.

Oh, and congrats to Lhuna and tgwbs for their excellent wolf playing. They may have not won, but they both fooled us at one point or another, and to survive until Night 5 without any losses on their side is quite an accomplishment.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing more wolf PMs from Night 4 and 5, as well as hearing from Mithalwen and her nightly choices.

[Macalaure]

Wow, this was a really tough game! Congrats to the wolves! If the field of choice wouldn't have been so narrow, I doubt I would have considered you two as possibilities, you were playing so well.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

A special thanks to Mac who once again was an excellent comrade to have. I don't think I could've been successful in my final hunt without his advice.

Oh, you're too modest. You did a lot more work than I did and I think you surely would have chosen Lhuna as well. If you hadn't been convinced of the pair Lhuna and tgwbs, I might not have been so confident to go after tgwbs the last day.
Anyway, it was absolutely great to plot with you once more, this time on the other side.

Originally Posted by tgwbs

So you see, if we had killed that night, it would probably have been Mac, and then things would have gone much better...

Originally Posted by Rikae

On night 3, I protected Macalaure. I'm still wondering whether that succeeded, or whether the wolves missed the kill;

Oh dear! This would have made three rejected kills in a row! This would truly have been historical!


Sorry for lynching you, Nogrod. As you can see from the PMs, the field to choose from was narrow, and I thought Lhuna innocent at the time. I had to decide between you and tgwbs (since I really didn't want to lynch another quiet one).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now where did these come from?

Well, your eagerness to lynch the quiet ones early on (I still think tgwbs had it right, even though he was evil), your assumptions on the wolves (which even boosted the former), your thinking that Turin is a sleeper (it looked to me like you were picking out only the one line from the narration that suited your purpose).
All these thoughts and ideas I disagreed on.

...and, well, if somebody keeps on saying things on which I disagree, then he couldn't possibly really be honest, or could he?

Your defensiveness on these points made me get the idea that you might be trying to lead the village along wrong paths. However, if you look back at the reasoning of my vote for you, that was honestly only because your behaviour towards tgwbs seemed fishier to me than his behaviour towards you. I turned out to be wrong, sadly.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

One more thing... It is a pleasure to read these Nightly discussions between you two Brinn and Macalaure. But you seem to be much more alive during the Nights than on Days... And that's the curse. And with this bunch of outlaws even more than with some other villages. This sleeping-curse was just too heavy on this village.

I mean having a good game requires people to actually play - during the Days as well! Be bold, be open or cunningly open-looking, whatever. Now you two were really playing well as I can read it from these PMs (although you made some grave misjudgements as well... but we all do them) but to the other players you were just two "non-posters" or if not quite that, very silent and careful players of whom it's very hard to say this or that... so tossing a coin it is with you, like with the one-liner -posters as well.

I think the primary reason why you all were just happy to lynch me was that I had talked so much that everyone of you had a point or another to go for me to appease your conscience... like it was basically why you picked tgwbs in this last vote - and won. So sad for tgwbs as he really tried honourably!

I sense perilious grounds here. I think, in this game, the average player might have had an average of maybe around 4 or 5 solid contributions per day, and I don't think that's so much less than in other games. I would say that the village seemed so quiet because there were only one or two really talkative players, who post more than the average does, and several who were struggling to participate much at all. The less people talk, the less the other people find to talk about (esp. considering the way the lynches and kills went), which of course is a vicious circle.

Concerning myself, it was a problem that, during the whole game, I was never really suspicious of anybody (except Izzy and tgwbs that one time... I was so sure suddenly) and even in RL I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to talk much about something if he has not really made up his mind before. I also noticed that I tend to be less open when I'm gifted. Then there was the problem that there was very little to go at, especially on Day Three, with two lynched who left little trails and no kill at all. To me, the first three days felt like an endless Day One. Add to this that I've lost my gifted ability after only one night and you might understand my frustration. In fact, I was close to putting on my boots of +3 to Hating this Campaign at that time.

[Nogrod]

You're quite right Mac and I'll promise I won't pursue this topic further. I just need to air those points a few times in a year...

And I quess there is some truth also in the fact that there were only eleven players to begin with.

As I said I enjoyed this immensly once again.

Thanks for the Nightly PMs Brinn and tgwbs! It's nice to start to understand how everything went in the end like it went.

PS. I can imagine your frustration Mac...

[the guy who be short]

During Night 4, Lhuna couldn't get to a computer, so everything you read is by me. I went a bit nuts and started analysing everything possible...

Sorry bout yesterday night - what a disaster, eh?! I couldn't get back online after the first pm I sent and hoped you'd have sent something to Leggy.

Thankfully, it's all worked quite in our favour. I think many people now expect amateur or absent wolves. I was also astounded by the support for lynching Noggy - each additional vote made me cackle insanely. Unfortunately, he was not a gifted as I had hoped, and so we have no lead to catch the next gifted... Well, not entirely true, we do have one...

We need to prioritize who to kill tonight, especially considering that this is the first night where we'll (hopefully) get a kill.

1) I think that it is now very important to kill a gifted. At worst, there are now two outlaws who know that three of the group are innocent, due to Rikae's saving on Night 2. However, it could be that Rikae is one of the gifted (it would make sense to protect themselves Day 1, I think) in which case it's not too bad.

2) I think our secondary goal should be to protect ourselves. I don't think I'm under much suspicion yet, miraculously, and thankfully Noggy absolved me of guilt! So we should look to protect you.

3) We need to foster confusion tomorrow. This shouldn't be too hard though; I think the entire village is quite lost at the moment.


Bearing all this in mind, we should NOT lynch Mith, as she is clearly not a gifted...

Yeah, right. Although by gifted, I meant Beleg or Turin at the time.

...If we're keeping her, I think we should also keep Brinn, if there is no strong evidence for her being gifted, because I think these two may go after one another tomorrow. We should also keep around Gil and Izzy as they are potential lynchees, due to the general suspicion of the quieter folk.

This leaves Rikae and Mac, right? We both think Mac seems gifted and he's generally under no suspicion (although Noggy did say to look at him tomorrow, so perhaps not). Rikae would be the safest choice, as her death will definitely cause damage to the gifteds; even if she is not one of them, they will lose a known innocent.

I'm in favour of killing Rikae or Mac, or possible Brinn if there is evidence of giftedness. The others I think should be left for the reasons above.

Now, we do have ONE clue in catching gifteds. Since Day 2, at least one person other than herself has known Rikae to be innocent. I'm going to go back and look at everybody's attitudes to Rikae and see what this brings up. If I have time, 'l'll create a table of what everybody thinks of everybody.

I fear you may come under suspicion tomorrow, my dear.

That is all for now. I shall contact you once the table is made.

I have made the table of everything relating to Rikae since Day 2 and will email it to you...

If I can find a way of getting this on the internet, I shall.

...The more I think about it, the more I think Rikae is Turin and Mac is Beleg.

Anybody who suspected Rikae after day 2 clearly is not a gifted; that's Izzy. I also don't think Mith is gifted because she hasn't mentioned Rikae at all; you'd expect a gifted to comment on somebody they knew to be innocent. These two are definitely out.

Gil has not mentioned Rikae, but he's been away. In any case, would Legate make him gifted knowing he'd be away? I doubt it.

This leaves Brinn and Mac. Mac has consistently found Rikae innocent, and she him. Brinn has also consistently found Rikae innocent, and Rikae found her innocent too, though mentioning her less.

It is, of course, possible, that Mac and Brinn are gifted together... I shall look into their relationship next.

Rikae has been most vocal in suspecting you, but also Izzy. This would promote the secondary aim of protecting you tomorrow. Although it may point to you, it could also be argued that it points to Izzy as well or that it is a set up. If you're not comfortable with removing Rikae, it will have to be Mac I think, which is a shame because I'm quite sure he finds you innocent at the moment.

I have to leave in a while. If I get no reply within an hour, to prevent the disaster of yesternight, I shall send leggy a provisional kill of Rikae, telling him that it could be overruled by any subsequent PM sent by you this night.

I have updated the table to include everybody except me, you and izzy.

So that night Rikae was my choice. She was really bad luck for us!

As you can see, I did mention the possibility of Brinn-Mac. I'm glad to see I wasn't too far off.

[the guy who be short]

(Lhuna)
Mac said he thinks it unlikely you would go after him toNight, but in any case his death would make everyone look towards you. Do you think he deserves to be killed, nonetheless? I think he might be one of the Captains. But my primary concern here is you, because it seems to me that I will go before you do.

Brinn could be the other Captain, I suppose. I don't recall her saying much of Mac, and vice versa. It could be them. Although I would certainly miss her vote of confidence in my innocence...

Ha... yes, vote of confidence. However, Lhuna was much more accurate than me, as you can see, in discovering gifteds.

(Still Lhuna)
...Could Mith really have had foreknowledge of Nogrod's innocence, though? If you do not think she will remain suspicious for long, she is another victim option.

So there are my rather vast choices: Rikae, Mac, Brinn, and Mith. Rikae or Mac I would most like to get rid of.

There is one thing I have to let you know, however: If you could so contrive to have me lynched without you being found suspicious once I'm proven guilty, would you do it? There is a reason I missed you last Night, and that we were unable to send a kill the other Night. I didn't expect the busy-ness to kick in this early into the term, and already I am starting to feel exhausted though I'm just on my fourth week.

If you didn't notice, my lack of concentration on the game is leading me to make clumsy mistakes during the Day. It's a wonder I'm even still alive. But I'm afraid I could hardly go on any longer. If I am to go, I would rather do so in a manner that would make our victory more certain.

I think Lhuna played absolutely marvellously considering how busy her real life was.

(Guy)
I'm not sure how possible it will be to go after you tomorrow. I've kept you nicely ambivalent until now. I suppose I could do an analysis tomorrow and try to come up with something suspicious, after doing Mac. I'll try. I can certainly lessen my suspicion of Mith... I do fear that I would not win without you though...

As for who to kill, this Rikae thing really is a problem. If Rikae is not a gifted, 3 people know she is innocent: Turin, Beleg and Androg. If she is gifted, she must be Turin...

I'm trying to remember my reasoning. I think I thought that Beleg could not protect himself and that, as Rikae was protected Night 2, she had to be Turin.

(Stiill Guy)
...in which case both Beleg and Androg know she is innocent, and she knows Beleg is innocent...

Whichever of these is true, I think it's frightening. Some of the louder people seem to have formed a block - the Mith-Mac-Rikae block is very chummy, with Brinn also in on it I think.

I'm all for killing Rikae AGAIN. Leggy will think we have some kind of obsession,

Who says we don't?

(Still Guy)
but it makes sense. If she isn't gifted, then it will still mean Beleg-Turin and Androg will lose a known innocent. And if she is, all the better.

I'll be trying to find the gifteds now. I feel that Mac is Beleg (no point killing him) and Rikae Turin. Not sure about Androg; - but Mith is a strong possiblity! If she knew Mac was Beleg, and felt Mac and Nogrod were innocent like I thought... yes, this makes PERFECT sense to me. She thought Nogrod was Turin because she knew Mac was Beleg and thought them gifted together.

Even the most logical of conclusions can be utterly stupid.

(Still Guy)
The problem with killing Rikae: Whom would she take with her? I think Mac-Rikae recognise that Mith is Androg... I think she would kill you.

Grr, this is difficult. Killing Rikae-Turin would result in your death. Killing Androg-Mith would make me lose a suspect tomorrow. Killing Beleg-Mac would be safest, but would not remove a gifted.

I prefer Mith. Getting rid of my top suspect will actually mean I can turn on you tomorrow without looking too bad, which is good. Mac has no powers and Rikae would kill you in the Night.

Agree?

(Lhuna)
I am thoroughly amazed at how you manage to make sense out of the roles. I am utterly clueless about them.

As was I, it seems!

(Still Lhuna)
I'm okay with killing Mith, because it could result in my death. Surely it wouldn't be too impossible that you just suddenly present a case against me tomorrow. I'll try to fight back as innocent-seemingly as I can so it doesn't appear too easy, and provide my own suspect/s, but in the end I'm sure you will manage to convince them.

You can secure a victory even without me, STAWB. I believe in you.

(Guy)
Hehe, well if it wasn't for Nogrod then I'd be lost about the roles too.

Thanks for that. I didn't even consider the existence of Androg until you mentioned it.

(Still Guy)
So we're agreed on mith, I'll PM Volo now. Tomorrow I shall present as strong a case as possible against you, with whatever evidence I can.

Of course, it never materialised. It's quite disappointing. If Rikae had just gone with her instincts and voted Gil before Mac voted, the wolves would have won!

[the guy who be short]

Oh, and sorry about the bolding. Dunno how to fix it.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by TGWBS

Of course, it never materialised. It's quite disappointing. If Rikae had just gone with her instincts and voted Gil before Mac voted, the wolves would have won!

Well, I didn't really have that strong a preference! I just wanted to give Mac an argument...

Anyway, I've learned that when Mac is "so sure suddenly" about something, that's as good as scientific proof. (So much for women's intuition...).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

There is little to be said that was not said, or that surely you won't think of by yourselves, but to let me voice my opinion, this one was a marvellous game and even though (or because of?) being a Mod, I enjoyed it as if I were a part of it.

I think against all odds, when it looked at the beginning really grave with our numbers, I daresay the game did not lose anything from its interest and, maybe, it was even better and indeed more "family-warm" environment with there being so few of you (or should I say: us?).
The game was, of course, a little changed against what I was planning it to do at first due to the lesser numbers (e.g. both Túrin&Beleg should have had one more addittional special ability... which I will keep to myself just in case I mod again), but I think even game-wise it turned out to be good and balanced. We had Túrin, Nienor (these two being the "weapon of mass destruction" whatever the case), Beleg, Andróg and Saeros as special roles; while originally Mim should also have had his part (larger) and maybe an Outlaw or two more (like an innocent Algund who would have known the identity of the Children, but they won't know his - sort of a seerish bonus to combinate things).

I am sure this one is running to a Barrow-Wight's Book of Records, because of the three in-a-row no-kill Nights, maybe even it should be considered that the stopped kills were both aimed against Rikae (I also don't think something like that normally happens...). This was one of the most critical things in the whole game, but as we saw, the no-kill maybe even helped the Wolves a little bit (well, maybe quite a lot). The other standpoints were, I believe, Brinn's choice of Lhuna (otherwise you were dead, as you probably know - I was almost sure she will pick Gil, that will be a total disaster) and of course, the Rikae-Mac learning each other innocent (though they both didn't know that the other knows as well).

The funniest moment still for me was Night 2. Rikae sent me quite early the information that she's, if I can quote, „going to rob that handsome young Macalaure fellow“. At that moment I said to myself: „Hmm, seems Andróg got to work quite early.“ But then I got a PM from Lhuna that the wolves chose Rikae as their target. „Hm,“ I thought, „so she's probably not going to enjoy the bow. At least the Ranger will have his bow back.“ I opened the later PM from Macalaure unmindfully. Then I burst in laughter when I realized what it reads and what it means. I have to say, as a first-time mod I consider this unbelievable and inequitable, for this is a thing that happens rarely and not every Mod is lucky enough to experience something like this; and I'm sure every Mod enjoys it greatly when it happens. At that moment, I pitied so much that you players don't know it!

And concerning your performance as players...

Shasta, it was indeed a shame you did not stay longer (for those who do not know, his aim was to kill Túrin - respectively: get him lynched or killed, but so that no blame falls on himself, of course - otherwise he was an innocent). Shasta, I know of your roleplaying skills and I hope the role did not hinder you much in that. Well, but someone has to die the first day.

Xyzzy, well, what to say? You are a Werewolfer, and you are yourself though maybe this time got more unlucky than normally. I think the "normal" games fit you better, but still - counting your number of posts in this game (three per day, though it was the only one) was good sign for me. Hope you liked the game too.

Nogrod, poor lad, that was really nasty what they did to you, when you were the one who technically was right in - well - many things. And surely you were the one with most "waking" effect on the sleepy hill, and I see you also manage to roleplay very, how should I say it, "realistic"! Had it not been for this game, I might not have learned. But thanks also for your help with co-modding, I am sure both me&Volo appreciated it.

Isabellkya, you surprised me with your roleplaying. It was as I said in the beginning, there is more in some of you than we can see when roleplaying is not set as compulsory. Maybe we should do it more often... Concerning the game itself, you were not as lucky this time with picking suspects and giving them to the village, but in the end, fourth day is fourth day.

Mith, thanks once again that you joined us in the end - and I hope you enjoyed it and don't pity joining in. You did well to stay as long, and did not end as wolf's meal until day 4. Say, did you have a clue who Túrin might be - or whom you thought to be Túrin (Nogrod at one moment, I think)?

Brinniel! Although you died in the end, I see you broke your record and that calls for celebrating it. And to consider that you died not by anyone else's choice, but due to a link of fate, well, being a "normal" character you might have finished till the end. Your play was a very good one and seemingly you kept it well balanced so that no one lynched you (skipping the fact that Nienor wanted at one point), but also you didn't call as much attention to yourself to get you wolf-targeted.

Lhuna, I never saw you playing before, but was not disappointed - you played just brilliantly! Who has seriously suspected you? For most of the time, practically no one - or at least not to bring it to deeds. And as I can see, in revealing other's roles you did also very well.

tgwbs, Lhuna's brother in arms. You made a nice wolf-pair, I believe, and you once again proved to be as slippery as possible, I'm sure had it not been for Rikae's and Mac's double-knowledge of each other, you could have convinced the village that you are Andróg or even Beleg. And even then, in the last moment, Gil could have gone instead of you. Even overall, the wolves' victory was this close. And

I'm all for killing Rikae AGAIN. Leggy will think we have some kind of obsession,

Well, right when you sent it the second time, I thought so...

Rikae, well, what to say? Brilliant game - and though your choice and getting the bow right the first night was... well... maybe I sort of hoped that "under candle least light"... but in all maybe I was not even thinking of this. It just happened. Nevertheless, even though you had the bow practically from the start, there was still quite a lot of danger for you, as we can see, more than enough. But you managed it!

Gil-Galad, I have to congratulate you to the victory (the whole time I was afraid they'll make you a scrapegoat, as always) and, also have to say that the time you had, you devoted to the game indeed with good contributions. Hopefully, and not just for the game's sake, we'll see you even more active in other games.

Mac, I am really sorry you couldn't use your Ranger ability more times. Perhaps some other time - I promise if I mod again, I will give you something that can't be stolen (hmm... like a Cursed Villager, for example). But nevertheless, you played well and you even did not get close to being suspected nor killed (again, at least not to bring it to deeds). So, cheers! Hope you enjoyed it and see you again somewhere...

And last but not least, not a player, but my co-mod Volo. What else can I say than "Well done, faithful servant..." You managed to take care of the game greatly, even if it was a little bit time-pressed, and without you everything will be surely waay more complicated. Thanks again!

And thanks again all for playing, it was great game to mod and great story to look at!

Now continue the aftertalk and don't mind my babbling