Admin thread for WWXXXV: Werewolves among the Wolf-men

[Nogrod]

One more thing... It is a pleasure to read these Nightly discussions between you two Brinn and Macalaure. But you seem to be much more alive during the Nights than on Days... And that's the curse. And with this bunch of outlaws even more than with some other villages. This sleeping-curse was just too heavy on this village.

I mean having a good game requires people to actually play - during the Days as well! Be bold, be open or cunningly open-looking, whatever. Now you two were really playing well as I can read it from these PMs (although you made some grave misjudgements as well... but we all do them) but to the other players you were just two "non-posters" or if not quite that, very silent and careful players of whom it's very hard to say this or that... so tossing a coin it is with you, like with the one-liner -posters as well.

I think the primary reason why you all were just happy to lynch me was that I had talked so much that everyone of you had a point or another to go for me to appease your conscience... like it was basically why you picked tgwbs in this last vote - and won. So sad for tgwbs as he really tried honourably!

It's always easier to vote for someone who has actually said something when you can build a theory or get a feeling from that person. And as the Days go by you tend to grow more uneasy of lynching those who have been quiet as you feel you risk making blind vote with nothing to substantiate it with when the going gets tough ie. the numbers start looking bad. I know this as I feel the same myself.

But that kind of works against the basic idea of this game which is that people should speak and then read what others say and make their deductions based on them. The other possibility would be that people just said "Hi" and then randomly made a vote. Which one of these is a werewolf-game?

The latter would be just pure guess-work. No one could enjoy it and no game would take place... just random suspicions and random voting leading to a random results.

This is not intended as making a judgement on any person who played in this game in particular. I enjoyed this game to be sure and that's enough for me.

Maybe we should try a game of one-liners to make the point visible enough?

Originally Posted by Brinn

The main thing I found odd about you at that point was your inaccurate and repeated speculation of Turin.

Sorry but I didn't quite catch this... Wasn't I right when I said that it is believable that Turín and Nienor will go down together (like lovers in a more normal game but in an RPG you can't use that word - especially in connection with Turín and Nienor that would have been bad taste indeed) and thence we should be very careful not to lynch either of them? And while the narration said that Beleg had to wake Turín up it seemed that Turín was a "sleeper" and thence a "quiet player" and that we should pay heed to it if we wished to lynch the quiets (which basically is the strategy I strongly back). Remember I had no idea who Turín was - like no one else but Beleg had. You can'ät blame me for not guessing it right now can you?

So what other things I did say about Turín that made you so suspicious of me?

[the guy who be short]

Hello everyone. Thanks to you all; I may not have won, but this is the furthest I've got as a wolf, and I really enjoyed it. I was hoping my last posts on the last Day might make you go for Gil... It's annoying because, had that happened, I would have attacked Mac (knowing that Rikae had protected herself two nights before, I reasoned that she could definitely protect herself next night, but may not have been able to protect Mac) and so I would have won. Alack.

Special mention should go, I feel, to Nogrod. I was wondering if my posts were getting a little too heated or even bordering on the offensive; I apologise if that was so (but you know it's just a game, eh? ). In any case, I think you could have been a very considerable force in getting the wolves lynched if you had lived any longer.

Doubtless you will all wish to know about the Nightly kills, or lack thereof. No, it wasn't preplanned or a cunning scheme... that was a really bizarre idea. It was just sheer bad luck which we tried to bend to our favour. Anyway, Nightly PMs coming up.

[the guy who be short]

Simple greetings and formalities, most of which have been editted out for general consumption:

(Lhuna)
Now, about playing style. I don't know my own, actually. Good thing I haven't played with around half the players, so they don't know how I play. But since this is a kind of strict RPG-style game, there's no room for frivolity (so I can't howl during the Full Moon ), and Nogrod, for one, can't suspect me for being too serious - which is how I expect myself to be in the game.

If it's not too evil, I'd like to take advantage of the RPG style of the game by writing as though in a serious RPG. I won't go overboard so as to make them suspect me of trying to shift their attention from the Werewolf game, but just enough to show my *ehem* sincere innocence.

(Guy)
I fear, dear Lhuny, that I shall be killed. I always am. I shall try to stay alive as long as possible, but I think that in the end, it will fall upon you to cement victory.

(Lhuna)
Strangely enough, I fear I'll be killed early, too. But we shouldn't be so pessimistic. Somehow I find the small number of players encouraging.

So yes, we were hardly confident to start with... I think we did well considering.

[the guy who be short]

(Lhuna)
So for our kill, do we try to hunt for Turin or Beleg, or kill the one we think is the most dangerous player? The latter would naturally mean Nogrod, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to kill him this early. He expressed a bit of trust in me, so I guess it could serve as a bit of a cover, but it could also backfire. Also, he voted for you. I say we leave him alive for now.

Mac was under quite heavy suspicion yesterDay, and if we can push it further tomorrow we don't need to worry about him.

The person I most feel like killing toNight is Rikae. I don't know why, but there you go. I've never played with Isabellkya or xyzzy so I don't know if they are formidable foes.

Those are my thoughts for now. I'll try to read the thread more closely tonight to see if some other suitable victim will jump out at me.

(Guy)
I think it will be difficult to go after the gifteds today, so let us wait until one of them dies accidentally - by our hand, or by the village's. This means going after somebody else...

I'm not sure about Noggy. I'd quite like to see if I can get him killed - his stance on killing xyzzy is bizarre! He is also completely unpredictable so hopefully he'll be looking elsewhere tomorrow.

Brinn is a worry to me, but killing her is too dangerous.

Mac was not actually under too much suspicion. He also said he'd look at me tomorrow. I think maybe it would be better to keep him around though - I think I will eventually be lynched, and in that case, his vote today, plus his neutrality towards me, could be interpreted as wolvish. Basically, when I die, I'd like him to be lynched next day.

What I would actually quite like is to kill somebody random and unsuspecting. Rikae is a good choice, but I think Isabellkya would be even more random and confuse everybody. It might even lead them to think the wolves feel they are under no pressure, and so start looking at new people (i.e. not me!).

Either of these would make me happy, it's up to you.

(Lhuna)
Ah, my dear STAWB, how could you do this to me? My choices usually go amiss! But at least you narrowed down the list to two, and agreed with my choice. Rikae or Isabellkya, then?

I don't feel comfortable killing someone who is yet to speak. And there's the possibility that Izzy isn't gifted; otherwise it would have been hard for her to miss the Day's discussions. It's possible she had RL reasons, though.

But if you speak of random and unsuspecting kills, what better choice than Gil-galad? Seriously, though, I'm going with Rikae, much though I would like her in the game longer. I'm unable to foresee any danger in that move right now, maybe there's none.

++RIKAE

So there you go. Rikae was our first mistake. I'd have preferred Izzy as Brinn guessed. This was to be the source of much future night-time worrying for me.

[the guy who be short]

(Guy)
So yes, the Rikae thing went badly. On the plus side we've left no trail. On the minus side, the two captains now know that Rikae is an innocent. This knowledge may help us to find them. If we have a good suspicion, then killing one of them would be excellent. If not, I suppose we could go for Rikae again, although I'd prefer not to, as she thinks me innocent. It's a possiblity, of course, that she is one of the captains...

I get the feeling that at least one, possibly both, of Nogrod and Mac are gifted. Killing Nogrod would, I feel, make people lynch me - if we keep him alive long enough, people get suspicious! And Mac thinks us both innocent, good to keep around.

Therefore, while I have not yet checked for clues about who is suspicious, my two top choices at the moment are Rikae and Brinn. Reasons:

1) The captains know Rikae is innocent. Everybody trusts her. Minuses are that she is slightly suspicious of Nogrod (keeping her could help his eventual lynching) and that she doesnt suspect me. If we don't kill her, we really must kill a captain, because having two of the villagers know the innocence of 3 of the villagers is very bad for us.

2) Brinn. If I feel that she may be a captain, I'd really LOVE to lynch her. She really has no suspects except me. Now that xyzzy, who I campaigned to get lynched, has been proved to be innocent, we could kill her off and I could claim it's a set-up. I will have to check what everybody has said and see how gifted she feels...

But our main priority is to get a captain. Perhaps Mac (if analysis shows him to be captainy) after all?

See Mac? We were onto you...

(Lhuna)
I'm not really keen on going after Rikae toNight. Sure, she scares me a bit, because I think she suspects me even just a little, but we've better options.

Of all the Outlaws, Mac's the one standing out to me most as a possible Beleg.

Nogrod is playing too boldly, I think, to be gifted. But I won't put it past him to deceive the wolves in this way. If we kill him, then the Outlaws will think they really have desperate and amateur wolves among them, as Nogrod suggested. That could probably keep them off our trail. The same could be said of Mac, I suppose, to a bit lesser degree.

As for Brinn...are you sure you can manage to throw off suspicion if she is killed? But I'm not worried about her yet. She hasn't contributed much, and could be up for lynching.

Ah, but now that I think about Rikae, I think you have a point that it would be ill for us if we let her live with the Captains knowing her innocent! But wait...isn't that just the same thing as with the Seer? What matters is that the Captains don't beat us to revealing her innocence - or worse, our lycanthropy.

But I guess it's safe if one of us gets revealed, because I think we've been doing a good job hiding that we're working together.

So my choices are Nogrod and Mac. Mac then? I can't be here long, so if you don't catch me online, I'll leave the final decision to you. Then we're even.

So you see, if we had killed that night, it would probably have been Mac, and then things would have gone much better... As it happened, I had difficulties getting onto the internet again due to my sister occupying the computer. This meant I didn't get Lhuna's PM until too late and so nothing happened. Alack.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

One more thing... It is a pleasure to read these Nightly discussions between you two Brinn and Macalaure. But you seem to be much more alive during the Nights than on Days... And that's the curse. And with this bunch of outlaws even more than with some other villages. This sleeping-curse was just too heavy on this village.

Well, I thought I contributed a fair amount during the Days, but when I think about it, I guess it wasn't all that much. But there were many factors following that:

1. Many things I discussed with Mac (Rikae's innocence, possible Gifteds) I could not discuss publicly during the Day without revealing. And talking about Gifteds in the presence of wolves is just silly. It's a different environment talking to an ally because you have nothing to hide. Also, I didn't want to reveal to much during the Day that might make the wolves see my connection to Mac.

2. Me being a little more than worried about getting myself killed early on. I know I haven't survived well in the past, and with someone else's life relying on mine, I was even more nervous. I guess after Day 3, I was a bit bolder...I think Rikae mentioned that somewhere...

3. Roleplaying. Don't get me wrong- I really loved roleplaying this time. It gave the game a unique touch, plus it worked well with the small number. But because of it I didn't post as much. I often reveal my opinions through lists and such...and we could only do a limited amount here. At Night, however, I didn't have to worry about roleplaying.

I hope that explains everything. Sorry if I wasn't as useful during the first Days as I could've been. People who know me well know I am a quiet person and not exactly bold; so careful is just what I do.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And while the narration said that Beleg had to wake Turín up it seemed that Turín was a "sleeper" and thence a "quiet player" and that we should pay heed to it if we wished to lynch the quiets (which basically is the strategy I strongly back). Remember I had no idea who Turín was - like no one else but Beleg had. You can'ät blame me for not guessing it right now can you?

I didn't suspect you just because of that misinterpretation. But the fact that you kept bringing it up and seemed to use it as a basis for some of your arguments is what I found odd. I recall once thinking that perhaps as a wolf you hinted that Turin could be a sleeper because the other wolf was actually one and perhaps you were trying to draw villagers away from them. Perhaps you never meant it as anything significant; just a mere suggestion of a possibility...but for some reason it stood out to me. Anyways, I apologise if this explaining isn't exactly clear; I'm half-asleep right now...

Interesting reads, tgwbs. So, you were sort of onto me by Night 3.. And I find it funny to see how such little things can cause a missed-kill. I'll be sure to remember that next time and not judge it on who's reliable and who's not.

Oh, and congrats to Lhuna and tgwbs for their excellent wolf playing. They may have not won, but they both fooled us at one point or another, and to survive until Night 5 without any losses on their side is quite an accomplishment.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing more wolf PMs from Night 4 and 5, as well as hearing from Mithalwen and her nightly choices.

[Macalaure]

Wow, this was a really tough game! Congrats to the wolves! If the field of choice wouldn't have been so narrow, I doubt I would have considered you two as possibilities, you were playing so well.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

A special thanks to Mac who once again was an excellent comrade to have. I don't think I could've been successful in my final hunt without his advice.

Oh, you're too modest. You did a lot more work than I did and I think you surely would have chosen Lhuna as well. If you hadn't been convinced of the pair Lhuna and tgwbs, I might not have been so confident to go after tgwbs the last day.
Anyway, it was absolutely great to plot with you once more, this time on the other side.

Originally Posted by tgwbs

So you see, if we had killed that night, it would probably have been Mac, and then things would have gone much better...

Originally Posted by Rikae

On night 3, I protected Macalaure. I'm still wondering whether that succeeded, or whether the wolves missed the kill;

Oh dear! This would have made three rejected kills in a row! This would truly have been historical!


Sorry for lynching you, Nogrod. As you can see from the PMs, the field to choose from was narrow, and I thought Lhuna innocent at the time. I had to decide between you and tgwbs (since I really didn't want to lynch another quiet one).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now where did these come from?

Well, your eagerness to lynch the quiet ones early on (I still think tgwbs had it right, even though he was evil), your assumptions on the wolves (which even boosted the former), your thinking that Turin is a sleeper (it looked to me like you were picking out only the one line from the narration that suited your purpose).
All these thoughts and ideas I disagreed on.

...and, well, if somebody keeps on saying things on which I disagree, then he couldn't possibly really be honest, or could he?

Your defensiveness on these points made me get the idea that you might be trying to lead the village along wrong paths. However, if you look back at the reasoning of my vote for you, that was honestly only because your behaviour towards tgwbs seemed fishier to me than his behaviour towards you. I turned out to be wrong, sadly.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

One more thing... It is a pleasure to read these Nightly discussions between you two Brinn and Macalaure. But you seem to be much more alive during the Nights than on Days... And that's the curse. And with this bunch of outlaws even more than with some other villages. This sleeping-curse was just too heavy on this village.

I mean having a good game requires people to actually play - during the Days as well! Be bold, be open or cunningly open-looking, whatever. Now you two were really playing well as I can read it from these PMs (although you made some grave misjudgements as well... but we all do them) but to the other players you were just two "non-posters" or if not quite that, very silent and careful players of whom it's very hard to say this or that... so tossing a coin it is with you, like with the one-liner -posters as well.

I think the primary reason why you all were just happy to lynch me was that I had talked so much that everyone of you had a point or another to go for me to appease your conscience... like it was basically why you picked tgwbs in this last vote - and won. So sad for tgwbs as he really tried honourably!

I sense perilious grounds here. I think, in this game, the average player might have had an average of maybe around 4 or 5 solid contributions per day, and I don't think that's so much less than in other games. I would say that the village seemed so quiet because there were only one or two really talkative players, who post more than the average does, and several who were struggling to participate much at all. The less people talk, the less the other people find to talk about (esp. considering the way the lynches and kills went), which of course is a vicious circle.

Concerning myself, it was a problem that, during the whole game, I was never really suspicious of anybody (except Izzy and tgwbs that one time... I was so sure suddenly) and even in RL I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to talk much about something if he has not really made up his mind before. I also noticed that I tend to be less open when I'm gifted. Then there was the problem that there was very little to go at, especially on Day Three, with two lynched who left little trails and no kill at all. To me, the first three days felt like an endless Day One. Add to this that I've lost my gifted ability after only one night and you might understand my frustration. In fact, I was close to putting on my boots of +3 to Hating this Campaign at that time.