Other authors?

[Mithalwen]

Yes - there are, I'm afraid that having read Tolkien first most of the others never appealed to me ..... Things like the Sword of Shannara just seemed to be a rip-off version. However I did like Eragon when I read it and I thought the first volume of Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials' called Northern Lights in the UK and The golden Compass in the States, one of the best written books I have ever read - but also the darkest and very bleak. The second one is OK but the third I found disappointing. Lalwende won't agree on that!!!!

Anyway I know there are downers who have read a lot more fantasy than me so I am sure they will provide more suggestions,

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

It's not what you might think of as "standard" fantasy but Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell by Susanna Clarke is the most Tolkien-esque book I've ever read in that it is able to create so completely another "world" (really a different version of our own world) and immerse the reader in that.

It's also "a ripping good yarn".

[Estelyn Telcontar]

For a long list of fantasy books that have been recommended (or not! ) by other Downers, check out this thread: What other fantasy books do YOU read?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle

It's not what you might think of as "standard" fantasy but Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell by Susanna Clarke is the most Tolkien-esque book I've ever read in that it is able to create so completely another "world" (really a different version of our own world) and immerse the reader in that.

It's also "a ripping good yarn".

I suppose I should give that another try ... didn't get past page 30.....

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Yes - there are, I'm afraid that having read Tolkien first most of the others never appealed to me ..... Things like the Sword of Shannara just seemed to be a rip-off version. However I did like Eragon when I read it and I thought the first volume of Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials' called Northern Lights in the UK and The golden Compass in the States, one of the best written books I have ever read - but also the darkest and very bleak. The second one is OK but the third I found disappointing. Lalwende won't agree on that!!!!

Anyway I know there are downers who have read a lot more fantasy than me so I am sure they will provide more suggestions,

I find Phillip Pullman to be a fairly loathsome person. He wrote his books not to create a good story, but with the intention of lampooning and degrading the works of Tolkien's friend and fellow Inkling, C.S. Lewis

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...726739,00.html

Lesser men often attack their betters because they know they can't equal or surpass them.

For a Tolkienesque spin on him, I'll say that Pullman is the literary equivalent of Melkor: incapable of creating beauty, himself, he takes what is already good and beautiful and twists it.

[Mithalwen]

I prefer Tolkien as a person and as an imaginative force but I hold to my statement that Northern Lights is a wonderfully written book.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I prefer Tolkien as a person and as an imaginative force but I hold to my statement that Northern Lights is a wonderfully written book.

That's fine. Melkor made the orcs wonderfully tough and adaptable by warping the elves, too.

[Mithalwen]

Have you actually read the book?

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Have you actually read the book?

Nope. But I'm not denying that it may be well written, either. It most likely is.

The motivation behind writing it, however (specifically, to degrade CS Lewis), corrupts the entire work.

[Mithalwen]

So on what do you base your assertion? It is not stated in the article you link to . Pullman does not share Lewis weltanschauung and I disagree with both but that is immaterial to the quality of the work

The only similarity between Northern Lights and Narnia is that children cross into different worlds. If it a lampoon to write a story vastly superior both in technique and content on that hypothesis then so be it. In any case I sense the approach of off-topic skwerls...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

For a Tolkienesque spin on him, I'll say that Pullman is the literary equivalent of Melkor: incapable of creating beauty, himself, he takes what is already good and beautiful and twists it.

Yeah, well... If it makes for a good story...

Don't forget that Tolkien borrowed ruthlessly from myths, folklore, history, and literature. That's what good authors do: they take what's already there and they twist it.

Originally Posted by davem

Actually, some of the most 'Tolkienesque' stuff out there are the Icelandic Sagas.

Discussed here if you're interested... Though you might do better to call young John's work Icelandic-esque instead...

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

(MM seems to think that the way to give a character depth is to make him act like a sullen teenager. That's doesn't make him deep: it just makes him low.)

Worked for Bill Shakes with Hamlet...

In any case, to avoid being particularly snarky without necessity...

I got through LWW as a kid, and another one... can't remember which... before Lewis got boring. Lewis spoon feeds his audience. I tried again a year or two ago before deciding that just because you're famous doesn't mean you're worth slogging through. It's nauseatingly claustrophobic to read Chronicles and downright incomparable to Tolkien's work.

I read Pullman's work at some point during my teenage years and while I found it interesting in terms of ideas, I also found it easy to - guilty cough - skip entire sections. I look at the covers and think, "You know, I know I've read that..." yet I found the works almost entirely unmemorable. I could take a guess at plot lines and themes and probably be right, but I'd be unwilling to stake money on any of it. Everything's worth a read, but for my money, Pullman's not worth my bookshelf.

As for actual recommendations...

Beowulf, The Vulsunga Saga, The Old Testament, The Divine Comedy.

Yes, yes, I know! Too easy.

They barely count as recommendations. It's like reading the same thing half the time. But we were asked for similar...

Here's my main reason for this post...

If any of you have read it, I wouldn't doubt you're about to raise a dubious eyebrow and wonder at my logic for calling them similar.

Audrey Niffenegger's The Time Traveler's Wife is the only book I've read since LotR that has captured my interest, my academic mind, my emotions, and my ability to manage my time with anywhere near equality.

You might shun me for saying it, but I actually prefer Niffenegger's story to any of Tolkien's. Naughty me.

Here's why I'm willing to suggest a story that's sci-fi and not really fantasy on a Rings forum: the magic of the writing itself. The themes of fate, love, sacrifice, and waiting. Seriously, I haven't found a story that made me feel this warm and fuzzy since I was a kid and borrowed a beat up copy of the Fellowship from my brother's English teacher. It's both heart-wrenching and hilarious, and is a treat for artists or bibliophiles. I had a blast picking out quietly inserted literary references. One morning, let me share, Claire and Henry's dawn breaks with rosy fingers.

And though it's not a book, I have issues with the separation of anything really. Everyone ought to go watch Pan's Labyrinth. If you insist on the written word, track down the film script if you can. I haven't read it, but if it's anything near the finished product, it's worth the effort.

EDIT: I forgot! How could I forget? Milton. Go purr your way through Milton. Paradise Lost... oh it's wonderful...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Yes, Milton, Dante, (parts of) Old Testament- but do try to get an edition with the Gustave Dore engravings. *Well* worth it.

And of course Iliad, Odyssey, Morte d'Arthur (don't feel guilty about skipping some- Malory became a better author as he went along), and maybe Aeneid (in places reads too much like second-rate Homer, or naked Julian propaganda).

[Mithalwen]

To be rather more populist, though I do think him a wonderful writer, how about Terry Pratchett? He uses his created world to say the unsayable about our own rather than to create a mythology and is delightfully irreverent but discworld is the only "created world" that has a fraction of the appeal of Arda.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I'm interested because I do not know...was Narnia written before or after Joy Gresham?

Lalwende,

Regarding this question.....if you want to see a different side of Lewis, try reading Till We Have Faces. I always felt it was the best piece of fantasy/myth that C.S. Lewis attempted. His depiction of the two sisters shows a depth of understanding that isn't apparent in the Narnia series. Till We Have Faces was composed after the marriage to Joy (Narnia was before). His understanding of women seems to have taken a giant step forward in the interim.

When I first read Narnia, the Susan stereotype did not bother me. I was a young teenager and knew a lot of girls who exactly fit the Susan stereotype. I righteously consoled myself with the fact that I was not one of these airheads but a "Lucy" who definitely merited entry to Narnia . However, looking backwards from a different vantage point, I am less comfortable with how Lewis depicted women, whether in the Narnia series or in his sci/fi--their roles seem so limiting. Still, the feeling is not so visceral that I can't get around it to read and enjoy his stories.

I will put in another word for T.H. White and the Once and Future King. Shippey once talked in an interview how Tolkien and White were unique--both the product of a particular education system and world view that had now vanished from the world--so there couldn't possibly be anyone to take their places. At the time I hoped he was wrong but now I am beginning to believe him. The interview was fascinating, and I wish I could find that link, which has somehow disappeared in the shadowlands of the internet.

[Lalwendë]

Cheers Child! I did suspect that Narnia was the product of his bachelor days - only a man who has got used to living without women could produce a character like Susan.

Fea - Pan's Labyrinth - good call. I reckon you might like Isabel Allende's The House Of The Spirits if you liked that - book, not film, as the film was pants.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

I will put in another word for T.H. White and the Once and Future King. Shippey once talked in an interview how Tolkien and White were unique--both the product of a particular education system and world view that had now vanished from the world--so there couldn't possibly be anyone to take their places.

I believe in many cases during The Once and Future King White surpasses Tolkien in the depth of his characterizations. He certainly has the better wit, I should think (the whole dialogue between Pelinore and Grummursum which consists mostly of 'wots' is particularly humorous, or the Hedgehog referring to 'His Majesty' as 'Maggie's Tea' or later just 'Tiggy'). But both offer a profundity and heightened sense of sadness that transcends the bounds of fantasy, and is sorely missing in many of the other works mentioned in this thread.

Certainly, they go about presenting their ideas differently (White's overt anti-war sentiment is offered without apology, whereas Tolkien's Christian ethic is subsumed in his work); however, one can still tell they are cut from the same cloth.

Regarding classic literature (Mallory, et al), I have just finished reading Gargantua and Pantagruel by Rabelais for the first time since college (hence the epithets in my sig line), and I would heartily recommend it for anyone that has no fear of earthy language and a myriad classical allusions. Voltaire's savage satire of Leibnizean philosophy, Candide, although not a fantasy, is surreal enough to warrant mention with these other works.