Tolkien & The Apocalypse

[alatar]

Before I start, I want to note my usual disclaimers regarding religion (i.e. I'm hoping not to offend, etc) and that this is not the forum for discussing views that do not have some Tolkien context.

The last book of Christian Bible is called Revelation, or the Revelation to John or the Apocalypse of John. The book contains prophecy that, to me and others, details the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Others see in the text a description of the end times, the end of the world, Armegeddon, the Apocalypse. The book contains interesting descriptions of actors (persons, nations?) such as a dragon, a beast, along with a bunch of calamities and other (to me) metaphorical language. Also, it's been noted by those who study the book that there are many references back to the Old Testament.

Is it then coincidental that Tolkien's 'Notion Club papers' have someone 'dreaming' or having a vision about the destruction of a place, and that the history of that place would lead the reader back to even 'earlier time' tomes?

Hope that that's clear.

Another comparison would be those who see portents in the Notion Club papers and see doom coming in 2012. Some Christians read Revelation in a different light, and with newspaper in hand, see doom like a wave coming over the horizon.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

Another comparison would be those who see portents in the Notion Club papers and see doom coming in 2012. Some Christians read Revelation in a different light, and with newspaper in hand, see doom like a wave coming over the horizon.

I, on the other hand, read of the Notion Club papers and, with the CVs and Publications of contemporary scholars in hand, see the doom of 'publish or perish' like a wave coming over the crowd at sporting events.

[Morthoron]

I believe in the back of the Redbook of Westmarch there is some backword scribbling attributed to Elanor Gamgee's grandson, Leonardo.

Also, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon is sychronized to the Wizard of Oz movie, or so I've heard.

Ummm...what was the question again? And are you going to eat that last brownie?

[alatar]

Another authority of yore, Sir Isaac Newton, states that the world will not end before 2060, as noted here. I'll sleep a whole lot better in 2012 now (that and the kids will be older).

To quote the article quoting Newton:

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner," Newton wrote. However, he added, "This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fanciful men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, and by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail."

"Thus spake the prophecy of Mandos, which he declared in Valmar at the judgement of the Gods, and the rumour of it was whispered among all the Elves of the West: when the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth shall come back through the Door out of the Timeless Night; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon, but Earendel shall come upon him as a white flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the last battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Melko, and on his right shall stand Fionwe and on his left Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, Conqueror of Fate; and it shall be the black sword of Turin that deals unto Melko his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Hurin and all men be avenged.
"Thereafter shall the Silmarils be recovered out of sea and earth and air; for Earendil shall descend and yield up that flame that he hath had in keeping. Then Feanor shall bear the Three and yield their fire to rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth; and the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the light goes out over all the world. In that light the Gods will again grow young, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Iluvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy speaks not, save of Turin only, and him it names among the Gods." - excert from The Shaping of Middle Earth

As Tolkien envisioned, so do I. That the end of the world will simply be the end of the world as we know it. I believe that sooner or latter things will change. Hopefully for the better, until that time comes it the duty of all good people to continue to "fight the good fight" and "never give give up hope that things will get better"

I do find Tolkien's numerology very intriguing though. I have never read the notion club papers before, but I guess I'll have to now!

Something that is very much worth noting is the Lewis-Tolkien connection, especially the whole space travel-time travel spiel they went through. Lewis got his end finished, but Tolkien only started fragments and abandoned them. These stories were supposed to be connected, and this cannot be ignored. Lewis did start a time-travel story called the Dark Tower (look it up on Wikipedia), and this could be the link between the Space Trilogy and The Lost Road/The Notion Club Papers.

It could be that this Dark Tower is meant to bring Morgoth back from beyond the Gates of Time, if one were to connect the story threads; and that would certainly signify the end of times and the commencement of Dagor Dagorath.

[alatar]

It's back in the news. Seems like some folks in the Netherlands are preparing for a 2012 apocalypse. What was interesting was the line, "Some are optimistic about the apocalypse, saying they no longer want to live in the modern world."

The end of the world, or the end of the person takes us back to Middle Earth?