Did JRRT encourage new ME stories?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

I would think that unless the Estate does get a very good professional writer to perform such an undertaking and provides them with guidance and direction, the chances of an artistic failure are increased. Bit of a self fulfilling prophecy then to speculate than anybody who writes a Middle-earth tale would produce garbage.

I actually never said it was impossible for someone to make a decent effort, & that judged as a story it could be good. My point is that it wouldn't be Tolkien - it wouldn't be genuine. It would be simply a good fantasy novel using names & places invented by Tolkien - but if you think that that would be enough for it to stand alongside Tolkien's writings as part of the Legendarium you simply don't get it.

I simply am astounded how people can accurately look into the future and say with firm conviction and certainty that if anyone ever writes a real book (not fan fiction) about Middle-earth that it will be worthless crap. Sure, that is a possibility. But so is a real possibility that it could be good and enjoyable.

Yes, yes, & nobody can disprove that an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters given an infinite amount of time wouldn't produce the complete works of Shakespeare.

You're right. Its not logically impossible. I just think that if we're going to have a sensible discussion on this we need more support for our arguments than 'Well, you can't prove 'X' won't happen one day.'

[Morwen]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

So somebody can get joy out of reading fan fiction but nobody will get joy from reading an officially sanctioned Middle-earth book written by somebody else? Really now? And this is known just how? Back to those lottery numbers I guess.

Middle Earth fanfiction currently exists and is most likely currently enjoyed. Therefore those who want more stories are getting precisely that. So why then, in your opinion, does the Estate need to give an official sanction to someone to create Middle Earth stories? Is there some particular reason why the informal vehicle of fanfiction is not enough?

[Sauron the White]

How many people enjoy these tales written on fan sites versus the numbers who would be customers in mass market book form? I personally loathe trying to read lengthy fiction on a screen. I much prefer the printed page of a traditional book. I would make a wild guess that I am not alone.

CHILDREN OF HURIN - a tale that has been around for a number of years now in several forms and is hardly "new" - is selling some half a million copies.

Maybe someone here could tell me what is the single most famous and best written piece of Middle-earth fan fiction and provide the number of how many hits it has gotten. Then compare that to a traditionally published book.

And we are not talking about hypothetical legions of trained monkeys on typewriters. To compare it to that is simply not honest.

[Morwen]

How many people enjoy these tales written on fan sites versus the numbers who would be customers in mass market book form? I personally loathe trying to read lengthy fiction on a screen. I much prefer the printed page of a traditional book. I would make a wild guess that I am not alone.

CHILDREN OF HURIN - a tale that has been around for a number of years now in several forms and is hardly "new" - is selling some half a million copies.

Maybe someone here could tell me what is the single most famous and best written piece of Middle-earth fan fiction and provide the number of how many hits it has gotten. Then compare that to a traditionally published book.

And we are not talking about hypothetical legions of trained monkeys on typewriters. To compare it to that is simply not honest.

And why is access to fanfiction a concern of the Estate?
If you had to pitch this idea to Christopher Tolkien would you seriously tell him that he needs to authorise new stories to facilitate your reading needs or so that people can conveniently purchase books his father never wrote?
It seems to me that if the Estate were to be persuaded to authorise new stories, the reasons given would have to be less 'reader-centric'. It would have to be shown that this would benefit the Estate. Money I guess would be the easiest selling point but assuming the Estate might be more interested in the preserving Tolkien's legacy than in quick cash, why would it be interested in authorising new stories?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

How many people enjoy these tales written on fan sites versus the numbers who would be customers in mass market book form? I personally loathe trying to read lengthy fiction on a screen. I much prefer the printed page of a traditional book. I would make a wild guess that I am not alone.

Sorry, I missed this post - firstly I'd have to say, print out the stories you want to read then. Second, I'd have to say this would come under the heading of 'Your Problem' not Christopher Tolkien's.

CHILDREN OF HURIN - a tale that has been around for a number of years now in several forms and is hardly "new" - is selling some half a million copies.

Which proves people want to read JRR Tolkien's stories, not those of FRR Bloggs. I absolutely guarantee that half a million people would not read a M-e novel by anyone else.

Maybe someone here could tell me what is the single most famous and best written piece of Middle-earth fan fiction and provide the number of how many hits it has gotten. Then compare that to a traditionally published book.

Maybe nobody cares about fanfic like you do. If you find something you like let us know.

And we are not talking about hypothetical legions of trained monkeys on typewriters. To compare it to that is simply not honest.

No - apparently we're talking about hypothetical 'geniuses' who're sitting by the phone waiting for Christopher Tolkien to call them...

[davem]

Originally Posted by Morwen

Middle Earth fanfiction currently exists and is most likely currently enjoyed. Therefore those who want more stories are getting precisely that. So why then, in your opinion, does the Estate need to give an official sanction to someone to create Middle Earth stories? Is there some particular reason why the informal vehicle of fanfiction is not enough?

And if anyone wants they can even print out the stories they like & get a bookbinder to knock them up a nice leather bound volume with the title in gold leaf on the spine.

It seems that what is being asked for here is for a story/stories which are officially sanctioned in order to make them 'more' significant, & which can then be discussed & argued over on Internet fora. That & the desire to have a bunch of 'new' M-e volumes on people's bookshelves.

Oh, these 'fantastic' books which are waiting to come into being! These books which don't exist in any shape or form.

Has it occurred that to demand to have something which doesn't exist, simply because it is not logically impossible that it may one day exist is a bit of an odd demand to say the least?

Sauron the White & Feanorsdoom - Now, if you had come across a fan work that you sincerely believed was good enough to stand alongside Tolkien's works I could understand you maybe contacting the Estate & petitioning fans for support in getting it published. As it is you seem to be arguing that one day such a story might be written & that it should then be published. You argue that the Estate should 'take a writer under its wing' & help & encourage him or her to be the next JRRT. I have to ask you in all sincerity who is this writer? Has anyone volunteered to become this writer? Have they written any M-e fiction as yet?

Or is the Estate to advertise for a writer in the small ads? Are they to send out invitations to famous writers offering them a contract - even if the writers in question have no desire to write new M-e stories?

Can we move away from this 'Well, its not logically impossible for someone one day to
write new M-e stories" & have some names & background? Do you actually know of anyone who's putting themselves forward? If so, let's see what they've written & then we can decide whether they're likely to be any good.