Did JRRT encourage new ME stories?

[Lalwendë]

Sorry but I get the feeling Tolkien would have hated people writing new stories based in 'his' created world. He seemed keen to put a stop to almost every endeavour to adapt his work (was especially filled with hatred for Disney) and while I don't doubt he might have been amused by some of the better efforts - the art in particular - I get the distinct feeling he'd have been rolling his eyes at the greater excesses of fandom.

He was none too keen on the 'obsessed' fans, especially those who rang him up at night, and as a keen reader of Sci fi and fantasy fiction he'd probably have quite liked to read some good, original work. I know I get sick and fed up with 'Tolkien wannabes' *cough* Terry Brooks *cough* myself and would quite like to see people instead put their prodigious talents into creating some work of their own. RPGs excluded of course as that's about interaction but I'm not comfortable at all with the idea of people spending creative time on all that lengthy serious fan fic that Just Aint Tolkien - Aint Never Gonna Be. Humour and smut yes - as that's essentially a new creation, being as Tolkien was not known for being ribald, but serious stuff? Why not do some of your own work?

Plus he'd have been tormented to feel obliged to read all the stuff too, as he was with his letters - just like poor old Bilbo having to let all them Dwarves into his home because he was Just A Hobbit Who Couldn't Say No

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I get the feeling Tolkien would have hated people writing new stories based in 'his' created world. He seemed keen to put a stop to almost every endeavour to adapt his work

Well, davem has already quoted Tolkien as saying that (at least once) he intended to "leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama", to complete his work. More to the point in the cases of movies, he confessed in the letters that he is either "willing to play ball", if the producers are open to advice, or that he should "welcome the idea of an animated motion picture", even with the risk of vulgarisation. What he didn't like was bad art, or lack of skill/profesionalism, but that's another story. If he wants readers to submerge in his world, and delight in it, I don't see why he wouldn't want them to dream on their own.

[davem]

Now, I may be going a bit too far here, but it seems to me that those wanting more M-e novels are the same poeple who preferred the movies to the book, & who, as far as the book goes, preferred the Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli storyline over the Frodo/Sam/Gollum one. They probably also prefer playing the computer games over actually reading the books anyway. What they want seems to be to have Tolkien's world turned into a series of hack & slash sword & sorcery 'epics'.

Given the choice of reading unpublished works like The Fall of Arthur, the New Volsungasaga, or even Tolkien's translation of Beowulf or a new trilogy by some fantasy writer like Steven Erikson or Robert Jordan, full of big battles & Elven warriors & Wizards (preferably young Wizards who they could 'identify with'), they'd choose the latter. In other words, they aren't Tolkien fans, they're fantasy fans. The fact that if this kind of trash was published as a 'continuation' of Tolkien's work it would wreck any chance of him being seen as a serious literary artist by simply confirming the prejudice of the 'Literati' that Tolkien just wrote trivial juvenilia with no real depth or value, is neither here nor there to them, as they just want some cool stories about Middle-earth (preferably without the 'boring' stuff about Hobbits trudging through Mordor - 'just give us shield-surfing Elves, & stubbly heroes killing Orcs, please!').

In short, I think this is all about the desire of fanboys & Leggy fanciers for more trashy Dungeons & Dragons stuff. Tolkien was a poor writer as far as they're concerned, but came up with some decent ideas for books (preferably ones that will be turned into movies as quickly as possible after publication, so that they don't have to actually read them) by 'better' writers.

Look, the bookshops are full of enough sub standard Tolkien rip-offs to keep those who want them busy for decades to come. I don't see the point in licensing a bunch of hacks to produce another stupid Sword & Sorcery franchise.

[Raynor]

Well, I guess there are several issues at play. No one can prevent anyone from writing or publishing new books based on Tolkien's (as far as I know, at least); also, I wasn't arguing that we/I/some need more mass-produced books, of whatever kind. And I find it a bid hard to believe that the people who want more Tolkien books are those who are commercial-fantasy addicts, as there is plenty to read. I even wonder if all members of this forum have read the Silmarillion. What I tried to say in the previous post was that the professor himself would have likely approved of others continuing his work.

[Sauron the White]

davem ... in your latest post I think you perhaps over-characterized and stereotyped many people. I would love to see well written and carefully researched Middle-earth tales which fit in to the historical timelines that JRTT gve us. There are huge and chasmlike gaps that would make for very good stories.
I would like the author selected by the Tolkien Estate and would like that same author to recieve guidance and assistance to make sure the stories keep to the faithfulness of the ME that Tolkien created.

Does that make me guilty of the things you listed?

but it seems to me that those wanting more M-e novels are the same poeple who preferred the movies to the book, & who, as far as the book goes, preferred the Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli storyline over the Frodo/Sam/Gollum one. They probably also prefer playing the computer games over actually reading the books anyway. What they want seems to be to have Tolkien's world turned into a series of hack & slash sword & sorcery 'epics'.

-- I look at the movies and the book as two different tellings of the same story. I do not compare them for quality of "which is best". I try to appreciate and love each for what they are and accept them on their own merits and terms given the constraints and realities of the various mediums.

-- as for preferring one storyline over the other, again I cannot and will not make this choice since both are integral parts of the story. Its like SOPHIES CHOICE - which kid do you want to live?

-- I do NOT play computer games be it Middle-earth based ones or any other type (D&D included) , so I am not guilty of that.

-- I have read the books (LOTR and HOBBIT) at least eight or nine times, SILMARILLION four or five times and the entire HOME at least once with portions being read several times.

-- When I discovered LOTR back in the early 70's, yes I did then try to find other books "like them" and found only garbage and watered down dreck. I have no interest in the sword and sorcery genre.

I have no interest in reading the Professors translations of other books including BEOWULF so perhaps that makes me guilty of some transgression in your eyes. I sorely wish that the time the Professor spent on that project he could have worked more on his Middle-earth tales. But thats just me.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

I would love to see well written and carefully researched Middle-earth tales which fit in to the historical timelines that JRTT gve us. There are huge and chasmlike gaps that would make for very good stories.
I would like the author selected by the Tolkien Estate and would like that same author to recieve guidance and assistance to make sure the stories keep to the faithfulness of the ME that Tolkien created.

This is the whole problem as I see it. This approach sidelines Tolkien, & reduces him to the status of a provider of synopses. No-one, but no-one, can write Middle-earth tales like Tolkien did - it was his creation. Its like asking for a composer to complete a few manuscript pages by Mozart, or a poet to 'finish off' a poem left unfinished by Dylan Thomas. These stories do not exist, & to get someone to knock them up is a completely pointless exercise.

Tolkien could (& did) change his creation as he wrote - everything from storylines, through characters, to the languages his characters spoke. Tolkien could take off on the maddest tangents, & make the most extreme changes (look at 'Myths Transformed). Who could be authorised to do the same kind of thing? No, what you'd get is yet more fantasy novels.

Middle-earth is JRR Tolkien, & JRR Tolkien is Middle-earth & that's the long & short of it. This is why, however you feel about the quality or otherwise of the movies, radio series or stage shows, they are not, & can never be, Middle-earth, because JRR Tolkien didn't make them. The only thing that anyone else can produce, whether authorised by the Estate or not, is a fake. I still say that those who want more M-e stories by other writers are like those who want more Dylan Thomas poems or Van Gogh paintings & decide that as there aren't any more, they'll get someone to knock up some more. The point is, however good these new M-e tales might be, they would be fakes. This is nothing more than an attempt to remove Tolkien from M-e, to treat it as though it is something that exists external to Tolkien.

Middle-earth is not a 'mythology'. Middle-earth is the vision of a man, who had specific experiences, lived in a specific time, believed specific things, a ferocious intellect who created a visionary masterpiece. 'Let's get Fred Bloggs to knock up another trillogy for the fans.' misses the point by a very, very long way.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Ay-men, Brother!!!

No one can prevent anyone from writing or publishing new books based on Tolkien's (as far as I know, at least)

Oh yes they can...