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Old 06-01-2007, 02:21 PM   #1
HerenIstarion
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Legate of Amon Lanc

Though personally being in favour of 'Translator's Conceit' idea, I'll feed you some other idea if you really need to have railways in Middle-Earth...

HoME, Volume V, II. THE FALL OF NUMENOR.

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The old line of the lands remained as a plain of air upon which only the Gods could walk, and the Eldar who faded as Men usurped the sun. But many of the Numenorie could see it or faintly see it; and tried to devise ships to sail on it. But they achieved only ships that would sail in Wilwa or lower air
Ibid, LOST ROAD. Chapter II, Alboin and Audoin

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The world is not a machine that makes other machines after the fashion of Sauron
So you may consider words 'express-train' and 'engine' (this latter when it refers to a train, not engine in general, I suppose) not as things new and only known in the Shire, but as legends/rumours/memory of things that were, or might have been in Númenor, devised either by Númenoreans themselves (as ships to fly the air) or by Sauron (machines making machines. I, Saurobot, made these... ). Probably Sauron, unless they've used coal - just in his line, to cut trees and burn them to make a thing made of iron move
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Old 06-01-2007, 06:32 PM   #2
Feanorsdoom
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HerenIstarion, although those passages don't explicitly speak of trains or steam-driven vehicles in general, the undoubted mention of Numenorian airplanes hit me like a brick when I first read it. It one of JRRT's ideas that I find most confounding in all his works, for, if they had gotten that far, how could they have not used it to greater effect or lose the knowledge later? One can imagine these flying ship to have been powered by fell magic of Sauron that was later taken away or the particular genius of Men who died in the Fall. Either way would round up the 'great civilization now perished' nicely, but oh, so little is actually said on the matter!

As far as locomotives, however, I think we are finally left with a gap. There were no mechanical trains in M-e of the Third Age, or there would have had to be a much greater foothold for an industrial revolution of Men, who surely would not do such things in a small enough way to only be mentioned by Hobbits in passing.
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:17 PM   #3
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in a world where no 'people' could actually die? And, most importantly, why would the Noldor develop them in the first place at a time when there were no enemies? As far as I can remember (and I've been ODing on HoMe for months), there's no 'aha!' moment when Melkor says to the Noldor, "Now you're gonna need these because the Valar aren't your friends."
This one puzzled JRRT, too, I think he finally decided that Orome gave them weapons for the Great March, when of course they would have needed them.

It's however worth mentioning that the Sindar appear to have been armed with axes and spears prior to the Noldor's return.
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Old 06-02-2007, 12:26 AM   #4
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Sarehole Mill and Edgbaston Waterworks.

I had always taken Ted Sandymans mill as a representation of his boyhood memories. The description of: a great brick building straddling the stream, which it fouled with a steaming and stinking outflow, add the fact that Sandyman is: grimy faced and black handed, also the great chimney and it is obvious that Sandyman is working/cleaning some kind of machinery, in fact it was filled with wheels and outlandish contraptions to grind more and faster according to one of the Cottons. Coal/Wood-Chimney-Steam are what I always thought was going on here, maybe I am wrong, what else is he up to, did Saruman import his Tekromancy into the Shire?. After Sharkey turns up there seems to be some sort of industry going on in the mill, but the ruffians are said to be carrying clubs and no other weapons, if the mill was now a smithy surely they would have iron/metal weapons.
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