Farmer Giles of Ham - obviously Catholic? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 06-01-2007, 03:54 AM

There are several St George 'histories', and only one of them involves dragon slaying (the others are the usual business about martyrs and whatnot). 'Ours' comes from Turkey and the Middle-east in general, brought back by romantic minded crusaders and was probably an allegory about ending alleged pagan human sacrifices.

It must have been a cracking story as England already had a patron saint, Saint Edmund. Either that or the crusading Norman aristos were keen on finding a belting story that could trample the old Saxon saint's story into the ground - and it does for my taste as Edmund was venerated for losing a battle against Ivar the Boneless, and being of a Viking frame of mind, what's so great about that? Plus the Angles were no Angels. Bah.

Interestingly at the end of the 1800s Pope Leo XIII 'decided' that the English were not to have St George as their patron saint any longer and would have Peter instead. Pht.

Pope John Paul II 'allowed' us to have St George back though.

St George is a cool saint to have - he may well slay the dragon, but at least there's one in his story. If Tolkien was playing around with that maybe he felt the same way a lot of us do and wanted the cool dragon to live instead.

06-01-2007, 03:54 AM	#19
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	There are several St George 'histories', and only one of them involves dragon slaying (the others are the usual business about martyrs and whatnot). 'Ours' comes from Turkey and the Middle-east in general, brought back by romantic minded crusaders and was probably an allegory about ending alleged pagan human sacrifices. It must have been a cracking story as England already had a patron saint, Saint Edmund. Either that or the crusading Norman aristos were keen on finding a belting story that could trample the old Saxon saint's story into the ground - and it does for my taste as Edmund was venerated for losing a battle against Ivar the Boneless, and being of a Viking frame of mind, what's so great about that? Plus the Angles were no Angels. Bah. Interestingly at the end of the 1800s Pope Leo XIII 'decided' that the English were not to have St George as their patron saint any longer and would have Peter instead. Pht. Pope John Paul II 'allowed' us to have St George back though. St George is a cool saint to have - he may well slay the dragon, but at least there's one in his story. If Tolkien was playing around with that maybe he felt the same way a lot of us do and wanted the cool dragon to live instead. __________________ Gordon's alive!