Splendid but Unhappy - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aiwendil · 05-02-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

There is very great unhappiness in our world, too, and that most certainly isn't caused by there not being a god.

That's debatable.

Folwren · 05-02-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

That's debatable.

What, that there's unhappiness or that there's a god?

Either way, I don't care to debate it. And your above statement remind me much of Mr. Jack Easy in a book called Mr. Midshipman Easy who was always saying, "I'd like to argue that point." Cracks me up...

-- Folwren

Lalwendë · 05-02-2007, 12:35 PM

It's an amusing statement for me because I often think how awful it would be to live in Middle-earth with such an unpredictable and omnipotent god as Eru is! Yes, there is a god in Arda, so it's not 'godless' - but the presence of that god wouldn't give me any kind of happiness - I'd be a bit scared to be blunt.

Maybe this hints at what the reviewer was getting at? He might be saying his own god is a nice god, not like Eru - so this is why he says "no real god" and why he assumes that this causes unhappiness. That idea that being without a "real god" causes unhappiness is weird and incorrect in itself anyway - how many people in Third Age Middle-earth know anything about Eru? Very few. But living without that knowledge doesn't make them unhappy. I always find LotR particularly refreshing and satisfying as these people struggle to do what's right without any kind of authoritarian morality. What does Sam know of Eru? Little if anything, but this doesn't stop him from being loyal, brave and making the right decisions for himself.

littlemanpoet · 05-02-2007, 02:15 PM

Kilian's words run counter to everything else I've ever read about Tolkien and Middle Earth, at least in terms of the Third Age Middle Earth as we read it in LotR. Now let me clarify that I personally see Iluvatar behind the scenes as a silent mover of all the "meant to be's" in LotR. (Those who disagree with me know who they are, and that's of course fine, and they also know that this particular point has been argued at length elsewhere; I'm not going there this time.) It's a different kettle of fish than what Kilian is saying. Tolkien has purposely written a non-religious set of cultures (note that I'm not saying non-spiritual or non-supernatural, completley different things). These cultures still function as moral cultures and free ones. These are called the Free Peoples. Which is to say 'not under the domination of Sauron'. And this Free condition is tantamount to happiness. For Kilian to say that 'gods not there' means unhappy is frankly ludicrous not only because it just ain't so, but it's a misreading of the entire set-up Tolkien has made. Too bad he had to add that weird paragraph, because everything else he said was pretty good.

05-02-2007, 12:35 PM	#3
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	It's an amusing statement for me because I often think how awful it would be to live in Middle-earth with such an unpredictable and omnipotent god as Eru is! Yes, there is a god in Arda, so it's not 'godless' - but the presence of that god wouldn't give me any kind of happiness - I'd be a bit scared to be blunt. Maybe this hints at what the reviewer was getting at? He might be saying his own god is a nice god, not like Eru - so this is why he says "no real god" and why he assumes that this causes unhappiness. That idea that being without a "real god" causes unhappiness is weird and incorrect in itself anyway - how many people in Third Age Middle-earth know anything about Eru? Very few. But living without that knowledge doesn't make them unhappy. I always find LotR particularly refreshing and satisfying as these people struggle to do what's right without any kind of authoritarian morality. What does Sam know of Eru? Little if anything, but this doesn't stop him from being loyal, brave and making the right decisions for himself. __________________ Gordon's alive!

05-02-2007, 02:15 PM	#4
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Kilian's words run counter to everything else I've ever read about Tolkien and Middle Earth, at least in terms of the Third Age Middle Earth as we read it in LotR. Now let me clarify that I personally see Iluvatar behind the scenes as a silent mover of all the "meant to be's" in LotR. (Those who disagree with me know who they are, and that's of course fine, and they also know that this particular point has been argued at length elsewhere; I'm not going there this time.) It's a different kettle of fish than what Kilian is saying. Tolkien has purposely written a non-religious set of cultures (note that I'm not saying non-spiritual or non-supernatural, completley different things). These cultures still function as moral cultures and free ones. These are called the Free Peoples. Which is to say 'not under the domination of Sauron'. And this Free condition is tantamount to happiness. For Kilian to say that 'gods not there' means unhappy is frankly ludicrous not only because it just ain't so, but it's a misreading of the entire set-up Tolkien has made. Too bad he had to add that weird paragraph, because everything else he said was pretty good.