Your name in ... ROHIRRIC! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

LjósÁlfr · 04-14-2007, 02:28 PM

You didn't with me I think.... But even in modern English... If you want to say Fred the book is owned by Fred, you get: "Freds Book". The s is what remains of a Genitive case, the same s still exists in (Both Old and Modern) Dutch, and in German. It's exists in the Nordic languages (including Old Norse).....

If you're still not convinced, I've got a book about Anglo-Saxon, I'll look it up in there tomorrow

Oh, and since I'm Dutch, and speak quit some German, I'll give a example of both these language's as well.

Now in German the name-cases still exist properly. The Germans generally use an article, only with the Genitive they've got the s in the end as well. The article is Des, and you get an S in the end of the word as well. For example, 'from the father' would be 'des vaters'

Dutch cases are basicly the same as German ones, 1 or 2 Article's are different though, but in Dutch, (for those who speak Dutch) think of the saying 'De heer des huizes', or 's morgens... ('s is shortend for des).

With some quick looking up I'd be able to give you examples of Old Norse and the modern Nordic Languages as well, but I cba

littlemanpoet · 04-14-2007, 02:51 PM

Ah, you speak of the "English possessive", one of the few hold-outs from its inflective ancestry. But it has nothing to do anymore with gender. Sam's rope, Galadriel's mirror, the balrog's wings. So masculine, feminine, (perhaps) neuter; it's all the same.

But yes, having taken German in college, I'm aware of the fact of gender as still prevalent in that language.

LjósÁlfr · 04-15-2007, 05:24 AM

Uhm.... the Genitive case IS possesive, in German you probaly called it the second (name) case.... In Latin we call it the Genitive (Genitivus). Since all Indo-Proto-European language's once had 8 name cases (Nominativus, Vocativus, Genitivus, Dativus, Accusativus, Ablativus, Locativus and Instrumentalis), we have one universal term for it, and that's the Latin one (Or word's taken from the Latin name Nominativus = Nominative in English)....

Oh and I looked it up in my book about Anglo-Saxon, it's -es

So my Anglo-Saxon (Blah.. it's not Rohirric, it's Anglo-Saxon, or Old English) would be Tíwes

The Nouns in Anglo-Saxon, male the a-stem :

Singular
Nom. - Hund
Gen. - Hundes
Dat. - Hunde
Acc. - Hund

plural
Nom. - Hundas
Gen. - Hunda
Dat. - Hundum
Acc. - Hundas

littlemanpoet · 04-15-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LjósÁlfr

Uhm.... the Genitive case IS possessive, in German you probaly called it the second (name) case....

Quite. Which just goes to prove my point: English speakers don't even think about language in terms of cases, precisely because the language is no longer inflective.

Tíwes.

I like that.

LjósÁlfr · 04-17-2007, 09:30 AM

I love cases, I find them quit effective when learning a language

. People always complain about them having to learn the conjunction (Is this the proper English word?) of the name-cases, but I find it easier then learning the word sequence with all it's irregularity.
Luckely I've got some friends who think the same about it.... I often use Dutch name-cases when speaking against them

.

I like reintrocuding some very old fashioned english as well for, (Thou, Thee, Whence old conjunctions of for instance verbs and stuff like that).

'Whence didst thou came, and whence goeth thou and thy friend? I thinke that thee walkest in a wrong direction!!'

(This didn't mean anything, it wasn't a quote either, I just had to say something old fashioned

)

littlemanpoet · 04-17-2007, 09:34 PM

Ah but there's a proper grammar to that kind of English. Anybody brought up on the King James Bible knows it.

'Whence didst thou came, and whence goeth thou and thy friend? I thinke that thee walkest in a wrong direction!!'

should be:

'Whence didst thou come, and whence goeth thou and thy friend? I thinke that thou walkest in a wrong direction!!' (Shakespeare would use "contrary" instead of "wrong")

But that's all quibble.

Then again, linguistics and philology are all about quibbles!

LjósÁlfr · 04-18-2007, 06:25 AM

I'm gonna have to say you're right, I've always been messing arround with my Times in English, and using that Thee instead of Thou was just a bad mistake of me...*sigh*.... That one was just stupid...

I'm often using wrong times because in Dutch, which is my best language, "I cycled" and "I have cycled" mean exactly the same, in English it's different, now af course using came instead of come is quit different from that.... ah well....

I thanke thee for thy most friendly improving of my wrong English. Where hast thou learned such a beautifull English?

04-17-2007, 09:30 AM	#5
LjósÁlfr Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sá er einn staðr þar, er kallaðr er Álfheimr. There is a place in the sky, that's called Elf Home. Posts: 23	I love cases, I find them quit effective when learning a language . People always complain about them having to learn the conjunction (Is this the proper English word?) of the name-cases, but I find it easier then learning the word sequence with all it's irregularity. Luckely I've got some friends who think the same about it.... I often use Dutch name-cases when speaking against them . I like reintrocuding some very old fashioned english as well for, (Thou, Thee, Whence old conjunctions of for instance verbs and stuff like that). 'Whence didst thou came, and whence goeth thou and thy friend? I thinke that thee walkest in a wrong direction!!' (This didn't mean anything, it wasn't a quote either, I just had to say something old fashioned ) Last edited by LjósÁlfr; 04-17-2007 at 09:33 AM.

04-14-2007, 02:28 PM	#1
LjósÁlfr Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sá er einn staðr þar, er kallaðr er Álfheimr. There is a place in the sky, that's called Elf Home. Posts: 23	You didn't with me I think.... But even in modern English... If you want to say Fred the book is owned by Fred, you get: "Freds Book". The s is what remains of a Genitive case, the same s still exists in (Both Old and Modern) Dutch, and in German. It's exists in the Nordic languages (including Old Norse)..... If you're still not convinced, I've got a book about Anglo-Saxon, I'll look it up in there tomorrow Oh, and since I'm Dutch, and speak quit some German, I'll give a example of both these language's as well. Now in German the name-cases still exist properly. The Germans generally use an article, only with the Genitive they've got the s in the end as well. The article is Des, and you get an S in the end of the word as well. For example, 'from the father' would be 'des vaters' Dutch cases are basicly the same as German ones, 1 or 2 Article's are different though, but in Dutch, (for those who speak Dutch) think of the saying 'De heer des huizes', or 's morgens... ('s is shortend for des). With some quick looking up I'd be able to give you examples of Old Norse and the modern Nordic Languages as well, but I cba

04-14-2007, 02:51 PM	#2
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Ah, you speak of the "English possessive", one of the few hold-outs from its inflective ancestry. But it has nothing to do anymore with gender. Sam's rope, Galadriel's mirror, the balrog's wings. So masculine, feminine, (perhaps) neuter; it's all the same. But yes, having taken German in college, I'm aware of the fact of gender as still prevalent in that language.

04-15-2007, 05:24 AM	#3
LjósÁlfr Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sá er einn staðr þar, er kallaðr er Álfheimr. There is a place in the sky, that's called Elf Home. Posts: 23	Uhm.... the Genitive case IS possesive, in German you probaly called it the second (name) case.... In Latin we call it the Genitive (Genitivus). Since all Indo-Proto-European language's once had 8 name cases (Nominativus, Vocativus, Genitivus, Dativus, Accusativus, Ablativus, Locativus and Instrumentalis), we have one universal term for it, and that's the Latin one (Or word's taken from the Latin name Nominativus = Nominative in English).... Oh and I looked it up in my book about Anglo-Saxon, it's -es So my Anglo-Saxon (Blah.. it's not Rohirric, it's Anglo-Saxon, or Old English) would be Tíwes The Nouns in Anglo-Saxon, male the a-stem : Singular Nom. - Hund Gen. - Hundes Dat. - Hunde Acc. - Hund plural Nom. - Hundas Gen. - Hunda Dat. - Hundum Acc. - Hundas

04-17-2007, 09:34 PM	#6
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Ah but there's a proper grammar to that kind of English. Anybody brought up on the King James Bible knows it. 'Whence didst thou came, and whence goeth thou and thy friend? I thinke that thee walkest in a wrong direction!!' should be: 'Whence didst thou come, and whence goeth thou and thy friend? I thinke that thou walkest in a wrong direction!!' (Shakespeare would use "contrary" instead of "wrong") But that's all quibble. Then again, linguistics and philology are all about quibbles!

04-18-2007, 06:25 AM	#7
LjósÁlfr Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sá er einn staðr þar, er kallaðr er Álfheimr. There is a place in the sky, that's called Elf Home. Posts: 23	I'm gonna have to say you're right, I've always been messing arround with my Times in English, and using that Thee instead of Thou was just a bad mistake of me...sigh.... That one was just stupid... I'm often using wrong times because in Dutch, which is my best language, "I cycled" and "I have cycled" mean exactly the same, in English it's different, now af course using came instead of come is quit different from that.... ah well.... I thanke thee for thy most friendly improving of my wrong English. Where hast thou learned such a beautifull English?