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Old 04-12-2007, 12:47 PM   #1
Legate of Amon Lanc
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Hey! What are you discussing here?

I think all the nominations here were quite silly. Not including Melkors and Manwës and I am just waiting for someone to say "Sauron because he let Frodo in Mordor", this is completely out of place... the examples you mentioned, they are all just pettifoggers. In case of many like Ar-Pharazon it was not foolishness but mainly arrogance, lust and, especially in case of Ar-Pharazon, I believe more than foolishness intentional denial of truth to himself. Denethor was defeatist, but not a fool. Eärnur was provoked - it was not foolishness, it was anger. Do you want to know one (and the only one that comes to my mind now) really foolish act in the very sense of the word, and the most foolish ruler of all?

My nomination is ORODRETH.

That fool built a bridge to let Glaurung in. I have never seen any more foolish act. It is the very definition of foolishness and if you posted "fool" in the Word Association game and it would be on me, his name would follow. It was Túrin's idea, that's fact, so we could speculate whether it was his or Túrin's foolishness, but for the purposes of this thread I am speaking of the ruler, which is Orodreth. I could name them as "ruling duo". But I don't get why there was no one who named this thus far.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:56 PM   #2
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Isn't building bridges always a good thing? Turin and Orodreth just wanted easier transport, as long as they didn't charge tolls I don't see it being a bad thing or at least without the benefit of hindsight.
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Old 04-12-2007, 01:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight
Isn't building bridges always a good thing? Turin and Orodreth just wanted easier transport, as long as they didn't charge tolls I don't see it being a bad thing or at least without the benefit of hindsight.
Yes, but building a bridge to a fortress you want to stay hidden is as foolish as it can be. It is absolutely unnecessary and untimely dabbing.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:57 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc
That fool built a bridge to let Glaurung in. I have never seen any more foolish act.
That begs the question: exactly why do Dwarves build entranceways that admit dragons (Smaug) and build hallways that allow Balrogs to run about the place? If the folk are four feet-ish high, what's the need for the 'extended to the max' headroom?

Does this put Father Durin on the list?


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Originally Posted by Max Headroom
Now, I'm no librarian, in fact, I don't know what star sign I am. But, as a famous person once said, "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." And as I - another more famous person - once said, "If you don't teach them to read, you can fool them whenever you like."
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Old 04-12-2007, 01:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by alatar
That begs the question: exactly why do Dwarves build entranceways that admit dragons (Smaug) and build hallways that allow Balrogs to run about the place? If the folk are four feet-ish high, what's the need for the 'extended to the max' headroom?

Does this put Father Durin on the list?
Well, actually Dwarves have something of that in them as well... though the hallways are not, I think, the case... a Balrog would, I believe, get there anyway... but Dragons, yes - I suppose the foolishness in M-E has something in common with the Dragons...

Speaking of it... another good example of foolishness is Smaug, this does not actually fit with the topic, though he might be considered a "ruler" in his time ("The only King under the Mountain we know")... showing your chest to every Barrel-rider who comes around is certainly not a good idea...
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Old 04-12-2007, 02:57 PM   #6
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Earnur gets my vote. Ruling Gondor should have been his priority
rather than answering Witch King challenges (especially since he had already been warned against this type of thing).

RE: the Nargothrond bridge (I do hope I spelled that correctly) - was the bridge not Turin's idea so that he could wage the open warfare he preferred instead of using guerilla tactics as the elves had been doing? I know Orodreth was supposedly in charge but at the point the bridge was built Turin had acquired enough clout in the kingdom to have things done his way. Orodeth to me seems weak rather than foolish (or perhaps just unfortunate to have Hurin's son wander into his realm).
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