Lord Melkor Rightful Master of the Fates of Arda - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 04-12-2007, 03:06 AM

I have to wonder what Melkor's 'role' would have been had he not rebelled? Would he have taken on the role later given to Manwe? Melkor possesses some of the powers/qualities of all the other Ainur - so would he have been a kind of 'intercessor' between them and Eru?

He clearly genuinely believed he could do things a different way - he was told that he could not create and therefore rival Eru's power but nevertheless he tried to. Some might call it pig-headedness, others though might see a chink of bravery or incredible self-belief in there.

As readers, we all have something to thank Melkor for at least! If he hadn't rebelled there would be no story! And as George Bernard Shaw said: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” If Melkor had not introduced conflict into Arda (and was he ultimately responsible? after all, Eru was the all-father and omnipotent so where did this come from if not from him?) would it have been held in a state of undesirable stasis until its end?

The Might · 04-12-2007, 03:15 AM

Bravery...and looked what happened to him

But you're right, without his rebellion there wouldn't have been a story at all, or only a really boring one about Elves and Men living in bliss in Aman under the light of the trees...or of the lamps, whatever....

Lalwendë · 04-12-2007, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Might

Bravery...and looked what happened to him

But you're right, without his rebellion there wouldn't have been a story at all, or only a really boring one about Elves and Men living in bliss in Aman under the light of the trees...or of the lamps, whatever....

Yeah! Sure, it would be fine and dandy to live in that kind of utopia (well, at least we presume so - but would it?), but it would be the most boring thing imaginable to read a book about it - it might last a few chapters and then you'd just toss the book aside wondering when something was going to happen.

Tolkien himself got disheartened when he tried to write The New Shadow, set after Aragorn's reign. He tossed it aside in the end, realising that he just couldn't recreate the dramatic tension there had been in the stories set before it. What are the petty dealings of Men in comparison to the evils wrought by Dark Lords and whatnot?!

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 04-12-2007, 04:34 AM

I also admire Melkor. He was the best and he wanted everyone to know.

Imagine your dad was singing and you got bored with his old, hippy tunes – wouldn't you start singing a few of your own more interesting words?

And imagine your siblings were painting dull pictures and constructing things you didn't think much of – wouldn't you mess things up a bit and force them to think harder?

And imagine your dad has pet ants. He likes them but he never spends any time with them. Your siblings do nothing but watch them (when they feel like it). If the ants somehow created a thing of especial beauty, wouldn't you covet it and take it from them? And if any of the ants started crawling all over you in a vain attempt to take back their treasure, wouldn't you brush them off and end their pointless lives?

You will realise that you are the master of the ant.

The Might · 04-12-2007, 05:10 AM

Which makes me wonder...
Why was the only one to do this?
Of course he had some followers, but it was only because of his initial rebellion that they joined him.
But weren't all the Ainur potential Melkors?
Still, he's the only one...just because he was the greatest?

04-12-2007, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Might

Bravery...and looked what happened to him

But you're right, without his rebellion there wouldn't have been a story at all, or only a really boring one about Elves and Men living in bliss in Aman under the light of the trees...or of the lamps, whatever....

Yes mighty Pippin, you see, if Lord Melkor is right about that, at least for one moment consider in your secret thought that He could also be right about other things.
Contemplate this.

04-12-2007, 07:57 AM

excellent response Hookbill the Goomba, Where is tinow? It was at my email . . .
Anyhow, I shall consider carefull your thought ful response, much improved, you'd better put your thinking cap on when you engage me I do not suffer foolishness and careless thinking lightly......anyhow, I will repay you and in respect give you just as thoughtful and heartfelt response but I must get ready for work or I'll be late!

Elmo · 04-12-2007, 07:59 AM

Neithan Tol Turambar has a job

Sorry that was a joke my little Melkorite

***Thenamir*** · 04-12-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neithan Tol Turambar, 2007/04/12 10:52pm CDT

I will say no more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neithan Tol Turambar, 2007/04/12 11:03pm CDT

You see how quickly these empty slaves betray their masters?

I knew it. He couldn't keep his verbal vomit in check for more than 11 minutes.

04-12-2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight

Neithan Tol Turambar has a job

Sorry that was a joke my little Melkorite

I could rip you to shreds for that, but you have secret admiring guardian angels, boy.

04-12-2007, 03:06 AM	#1
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	I have to wonder what Melkor's 'role' would have been had he not rebelled? Would he have taken on the role later given to Manwe? Melkor possesses some of the powers/qualities of all the other Ainur - so would he have been a kind of 'intercessor' between them and Eru? He clearly genuinely believed he could do things a different way - he was told that he could not create and therefore rival Eru's power but nevertheless he tried to. Some might call it pig-headedness, others though might see a chink of bravery or incredible self-belief in there. As readers, we all have something to thank Melkor for at least! If he hadn't rebelled there would be no story! And as George Bernard Shaw said: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” If Melkor had not introduced conflict into Arda (and was he ultimately responsible? after all, Eru was the all-father and omnipotent so where did this come from if not from him?) would it have been held in a state of undesirable stasis until its end? __________________ Gordon's alive!

04-12-2007, 03:15 AM	#2
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Bravery...and looked what happened to him But you're right, without his rebellion there wouldn't have been a story at all, or only a really boring one about Elves and Men living in bliss in Aman under the light of the trees...or of the lamps, whatever.... __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

04-12-2007, 04:34 AM	#4
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I also admire Melkor. He was the best and he wanted everyone to know. Imagine your dad was singing and you got bored with his old, hippy tunes – wouldn't you start singing a few of your own more interesting words? And imagine your siblings were painting dull pictures and constructing things you didn't think much of – wouldn't you mess things up a bit and force them to think harder? And imagine your dad has pet ants. He likes them but he never spends any time with them. Your siblings do nothing but watch them (when they feel like it). If the ants somehow created a thing of especial beauty, wouldn't you covet it and take it from them? And if any of the ants started crawling all over you in a vain attempt to take back their treasure, wouldn't you brush them off and end their pointless lives? You will realise that you are the master of the ant. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

04-12-2007, 05:10 AM	#5
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Which makes me wonder... Why was the only one to do this? Of course he had some followers, but it was only because of his initial rebellion that they joined him. But weren't all the Ainur potential Melkors? Still, he's the only one...just because he was the greatest? __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

04-12-2007, 07:59 AM	#8
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	Neithan Tol Turambar has a job Sorry that was a joke my little Melkorite __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

04-12-2007, 07:57 AM	#7
Neithan Tol Turambar Guest Posts: n/a	excellent response Hookbill the Goomba, Where is tinow? It was at my email . . . Anyhow, I shall consider carefull your thought ful response, much improved, you'd better put your thinking cap on when you engage me I do not suffer foolishness and careless thinking lightly......anyhow, I will repay you and in respect give you just as thoughtful and heartfelt response but I must get ready for work or I'll be late!