Why is Gandalf Called Gandalf the Grey?? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

08-05-2003, 03:51 PM

???

Sindae · 08-05-2003, 05:54 PM

There were 5 Istari (wizards) sent to Middle Earth, and their clothes had different colours. 2 blue, a brown one (Radagast the Brown), a white (Saruman) and a grey wizard, which was Gandalf. After the battle with the Balrog he returned to Middle Earth as Gandalf the White (and he wears white clothes then) and sais "I am Saruman as he should be" (or something similar, don't have the book lying before me right now). Since Saruman is a traitor he cannot be the head of the White Council anymore, so Gandalf becomes the white Istari.

I hope my explanation is right, if there are errors please tell me! But that's what I think is the reason...

Sindae · 08-05-2003, 05:56 PM

oh, and welcome to the Downs, karii [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Kaiserin · 08-05-2003, 07:04 PM

I was thinking that "Gandalf the Grey" was probably a title others had attached to the wizard because of his gray cloak, then he began calling himself that when he was known as "the Grey". Elves called him "Mithrandir", which means "the grey pilgrim"; a different people from different areas called him other things...

The istari's robe colors also said something about their "areas of expertise" - or something like that. Radagast the Brown was more involved with flora and fauna and earth-stuff, and not that much involved with affairs of the Ring like Gandalf the Grey and Saruman the White were.
When Saruman became corrupted by the power of the Ring, he actually ceased to be "white". He wore a robe that merely appeared white but up close it was actually made up of many different colors.

(If I just said something incorrect, anybody feel free to comment! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 08-06-2003, 07:53 AM

He wears a grey outfit.

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 08-06-2003, 12:29 PM

But do you think that Gandalf is called the Grey because of his outfit or is he wearing a grey outfit because of his name?
In the White Council the wizards had own colours (and so did ithryn luin but let them be now...). Saruman was the highest and maybe greatest in the council, he was the White. Gandalf comes then...not white but nearly. He's the Grey. And finally Radagast who was Brown.
So which was first: the Name or the Outfit?

[edit:whooops, maybe this will clear my question]

[ August 06, 2003: Message edited by: dancing spawn of ungoliant ]

lore_master · 08-06-2003, 02:22 PM

the Istari, which were wizards sent form the west(Valinor)had different ranks, similar to that of officers in the millitary. there were 5 Istar, and 4 ranks:

pallando:blue
alastar:blue
radagast:brown
gandalf:grey
sauruman:white

the blue wizards went off to the east with sauruman and were never seen or heard from again, but sauruman returned, it is thought that the blue wizards started many different cults and religions in middle earth.

radagast was never realy interrested in people and hung aroung with birds and other animals. he probably never went back to the west.

gandalf was second in command of the order untill sauruman betrayed the west and was cast down form the order. when he died fighting with the balrog, his sprit went back to the west but was sent back because he had not finnished the Istari's mission, which was to give hope and strengh to those who had to combat sauron.

sauruman was the leader, but was cast away form the order wehn he betrayed them and alleid himself to sauron.
when he died his spirit was not allowed to return to the west but wander the void forever.

hope that answers your question

***Sharkû*** · 08-07-2003, 08:20 AM

The colours need not stand for anything in specific. All istari were clad in their respective colour upon arrival at Middle-earth already. Olórin, i.e. Gandalf, at any rate used to wear grey even before that in Valinor; or at least always when on 'a journey' (which we know might have already taken him to ME): "Then Manwë asked, where was Olórin ? And Olórin, who was clad in grey, and having just entered from a journey had seated himself at the edge of the council, asked what Manwë would have of him." (UT, istari essay)

The Valinorean names of the istari give no indication of any colour, however.

Novberaid · 08-07-2003, 08:30 PM

Sharku and Loremaster have hit it right on the head. I have considered myself knowledgeable about Tolkein's work, but these guys know their stuff.

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 08-08-2003, 06:34 AM

Quote:

The colours need not stand for anything in specific.

But why Gandalf after his return then is white and he kind of makes a big deal of it? Or is it just one way to say clearly that Gandalf has taken the place of Saruman as the head of the White Council.
And what's the thing with Sarumans 'new dress that changes colour'? Whoooops, this off topic...sorry, but I'm just curious.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 08-08-2003, 07:04 AM

When Gandalf returned as Gandalf the White, that was to make a point. That point being, "I'm coming for YOU Saruman!"

However, before all that, Gandalf (who wasn't even called Gandalf at that time) arrived in Middle Earth clad in grey.

The colour definitely came before the nickname.

08-13-2003, 06:33 PM

This may have been mentioned before, I tried to read ahead, but I'm a little tired. The Istari were meant to be rather passive with names, I think. In other fictional works, knowing someone's true name is supposed to give you power over someone, and the Istari did not wish to be controlled by anybody. I dunno, my reasoning is screwed up, I'll go to bed now. I hope I helped.

-Suardeloth

THE Ka · 08-13-2003, 07:09 PM

Well, i think it is because when the maya or the wizards came to middle earth, they all had different colors of clothes...

ether that or it was a nick name because he looked very old... but, i think it's a pretty suave nick name... nah, just joking. but, it's still a good nick name....

But to my mind, thoough i am native here
and to the manner born, it is custom
more honour'd in the breach than the observance.
- Shakespear Hamlet 1, 4.

Grimbold · 08-17-2003, 04:15 PM

I would love to find out what happened to the two blue wizards. Two Istari, just disappeared without a trace? What? Not to mention, why were there two BLUE wizards? Does this have any significance at all, or did Tolkien just invent it to fill in space? Unlikely, I think. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Noxomanus · 08-18-2003, 03:30 AM

I think there were two blue wizards because Pallando (the second one) was chosen to come by Allatar(the first) instead of by a Vala.This could mean the task of one Blue Wizard became the task of two who thus shared both their mission and their status in the Order of the Istari.Consequently,both were clad in blue.

Finiel · 08-20-2003, 09:48 AM

whoa! since you all are talking about the color outfits of the wizards and its relation to their purposes in ME, they somehow reminded me of the power rangers...radagast the brown ranger. hee hee

anyway, i may add my 2 cents worth of opinion:
i think the first name came first. Like Gandalf just called himself GANDALF. then the outfit, like he was called the Grey because people noticed that he wore the same color everyday.

OR because Gandalf is complex. He is neither black nor white. he can't be easily defined.( I think this is Tolkien's reason for naming Gandalf THE grey).
of course, there's the TTT part where he became the white. But that's a different story... Being the White is like being the leader ( since saruman got booted out for having some fashion sense---saruman with many colors) and the Grey seems more like the regular kinnda guy.

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Lhunardawen · 08-21-2003, 04:06 AM

Grimbold, if you have read "The Istari" in UT, you will get the answer to your question.

Some possibilities are:
1. They felt that ME is a very hopeless place, so they packed their bags and returned to Valinor (a very loose translation [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) or...
2. They easily got burdened of their errand to ME from the Valar so they did the same as they did in #1 and lastly...
3. They found their way to Mordor and became Sauron's minions (although they are all Maiar). Really. This was mentioned there.

I might be wrong, so somebody correct me if I am! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

By the way, sorry for straying from the topic! I just felt the need to answer Grimbold's question. Hope it helped.

Welcome to the Downs, Suardeloth! Enjoy being dead.
[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ August 21, 2003: Message edited by: Lhunardawen ]

08-05-2003, 05:54 PM	#2
Sindae Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: a messy room in the world's best city Posts: 95	There were 5 Istari (wizards) sent to Middle Earth, and their clothes had different colours. 2 blue, a brown one (Radagast the Brown), a white (Saruman) and a grey wizard, which was Gandalf. After the battle with the Balrog he returned to Middle Earth as Gandalf the White (and he wears white clothes then) and sais "I am Saruman as he should be" (or something similar, don't have the book lying before me right now). Since Saruman is a traitor he cannot be the head of the White Council anymore, so Gandalf becomes the white Istari. I hope my explanation is right, if there are errors please tell me! But that's what I think is the reason... __________________ My page about Iceland

08-05-2003, 05:56 PM	#3
Sindae Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: a messy room in the world's best city Posts: 95	oh, and welcome to the Downs, karii [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ My page about Iceland

08-05-2003, 07:04 PM	#4
Kaiserin Wight Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cair Paravel Posts: 150	I was thinking that "Gandalf the Grey" was probably a title others had attached to the wizard because of his gray cloak, then he began calling himself that when he was known as "the Grey". Elves called him "Mithrandir", which means "the grey pilgrim"; a different people from different areas called him other things... The istari's robe colors also said something about their "areas of expertise" - or something like that. Radagast the Brown was more involved with flora and fauna and earth-stuff, and not that much involved with affairs of the Ring like Gandalf the Grey and Saruman the White were. When Saruman became corrupted by the power of the Ring, he actually ceased to be "white". He wore a robe that merely appeared white but up close it was actually made up of many different colors. (If I just said something incorrect, anybody feel free to comment! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) __________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

08-06-2003, 07:53 AM	#5
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	He wears a grey outfit. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

08-06-2003, 12:29 PM	#6
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,234	But do you think that Gandalf is called the Grey because of his outfit or is he wearing a grey outfit because of his name? In the White Council the wizards had own colours (and so did ithryn luin but let them be now...). Saruman was the highest and maybe greatest in the council, he was the White. Gandalf comes then...not white but nearly. He's the Grey. And finally Radagast who was Brown. So which was first: the Name or the Outfit? [edit:whooops, maybe this will clear my question] [ August 06, 2003: Message edited by: dancing spawn of ungoliant ] __________________ Fenris Wolf

08-05-2003, 03:51 PM	#1
karii Guest Posts: n/a	Why is Gandalf Called Gandalf the Grey?? ???

08-06-2003, 02:22 PM	#7
lore_master Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Valhalla Posts: 116	the Istari, which were wizards sent form the west(Valinor)had different ranks, similar to that of officers in the millitary. there were 5 Istar, and 4 ranks: pallando:blue alastar:blue radagast:brown gandalf:grey sauruman:white the blue wizards went off to the east with sauruman and were never seen or heard from again, but sauruman returned, it is thought that the blue wizards started many different cults and religions in middle earth. radagast was never realy interrested in people and hung aroung with birds and other animals. he probably never went back to the west. gandalf was second in command of the order untill sauruman betrayed the west and was cast down form the order. when he died fighting with the balrog, his sprit went back to the west but was sent back because he had not finnished the Istari's mission, which was to give hope and strengh to those who had to combat sauron. sauruman was the leader, but was cast away form the order wehn he betrayed them and alleid himself to sauron. when he died his spirit was not allowed to return to the west but wander the void forever. hope that answers your question __________________ As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think

08-07-2003, 08:20 AM	#8
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	The colours need not stand for anything in specific. All istari were clad in their respective colour upon arrival at Middle-earth already. Olórin, i.e. Gandalf, at any rate used to wear grey even before that in Valinor; or at least always when on 'a journey' (which we know might have already taken him to ME): "Then Manwë asked, where was Olórin ? And Olórin, who was clad in grey, and having just entered from a journey had seated himself at the edge of the council, asked what Manwë would have of him." (UT, istari essay) The Valinorean names of the istari give no indication of any colour, however.

08-07-2003, 08:30 PM	#9
Novberaid Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mirkwood Forest Posts: 45	Sharku and Loremaster have hit it right on the head. I have considered myself knowledgeable about Tolkein's work, but these guys know their stuff. __________________ By the starlit mere of Cuivienen, they rose from the sleep of Iluvatar

08-08-2003, 07:04 AM	#11
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	When Gandalf returned as Gandalf the White, that was to make a point. That point being, "I'm coming for YOU Saruman!" However, before all that, Gandalf (who wasn't even called Gandalf at that time) arrived in Middle Earth clad in grey. The colour definitely came before the nickname. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

08-13-2003, 06:33 PM	#12
Suardeloth_Blue_Istari Guest Posts: n/a	This may have been mentioned before, I tried to read ahead, but I'm a little tired. The Istari were meant to be rather passive with names, I think. In other fictional works, knowing someone's true name is supposed to give you power over someone, and the Istari did not wish to be controlled by anybody. I dunno, my reasoning is screwed up, I'll go to bed now. I hope I helped. -Suardeloth

08-13-2003, 07:09 PM	#13
THE Ka Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: As with the flygja Posts: 1,403	Well, i think it is because when the maya or the wizards came to middle earth, they all had different colors of clothes... ether that or it was a nick name because he looked very old... but, i think it's a pretty suave nick name... nah, just joking. but, it's still a good nick name.... But to my mind, thoough i am native here and to the manner born, it is custom more honour'd in the breach than the observance. - Shakespear Hamlet 1, 4. __________________ Vinur, vinur skilur tú meg? Veitst tú ongan loyniveg? Hevur tú reikað líka sum eg, í endaleysu tokuni?

08-17-2003, 04:15 PM	#14
Grimbold Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenor Posts: 88	I would love to find out what happened to the two blue wizards. Two Istari, just disappeared without a trace? What? Not to mention, why were there two BLUE wizards? Does this have any significance at all, or did Tolkien just invent it to fill in space? Unlikely, I think. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountains. Like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the west. Behind the hills, into shadow. How did it come to this?

08-18-2003, 03:30 AM	#15
Noxomanus Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 233	I think there were two blue wizards because Pallando (the second one) was chosen to come by Allatar(the first) instead of by a Vala.This could mean the task of one Blue Wizard became the task of two who thus shared both their mission and their status in the Order of the Istari.Consequently,both were clad in blue. __________________ Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't

08-20-2003, 09:48 AM	#16
Finiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: somewhere in the tropics Posts: 69	whoa! since you all are talking about the color outfits of the wizards and its relation to their purposes in ME, they somehow reminded me of the power rangers...radagast the brown ranger. hee hee anyway, i may add my 2 cents worth of opinion: i think the first name came first. Like Gandalf just called himself GANDALF. then the outfit, like he was called the Grey because people noticed that he wore the same color everyday. OR because Gandalf is complex. He is neither black nor white. he can't be easily defined.( I think this is Tolkien's reason for naming Gandalf THE grey). of course, there's the TTT part where he became the white. But that's a different story... Being the White is like being the leader ( since saruman got booted out for having some fashion sense---saruman with many colors) and the Grey seems more like the regular kinnda guy. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ "The night has a thousand eyes, And the day but one; Yet the light of a bright world dies when day is done. The mind has a thousand eyes, And the heart but one; Yet the light of a whole life dies when love is done."-- F.W. Bourdillon

08-21-2003, 04:06 AM	#17
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	Grimbold, if you have read "The Istari" in UT, you will get the answer to your question. Some possibilities are: 1. They felt that ME is a very hopeless place, so they packed their bags and returned to Valinor (a very loose translation [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) or... 2. They easily got burdened of their errand to ME from the Valar so they did the same as they did in #1 and lastly... 3. They found their way to Mordor and became Sauron's minions (although they are all Maiar). Really. This was mentioned there. I might be wrong, so somebody correct me if I am! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] By the way, sorry for straying from the topic! I just felt the need to answer Grimbold's question. Hope it helped. Welcome to the Downs, Suardeloth! Enjoy being dead. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [ August 21, 2003: Message edited by: Lhunardawen ]