Silmarillion - Chapter 10 - Of the Sindar

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Squatter

But Thingol describes those lands as "empty and wild" after the disruption of this chapter.

Imo, I don't think we can argue that the elves had such a density of population that they could claim all Beleriand as Lebensraum, a necessary space for their living, nor did Beleriand cover all of Middle Earth. Even if Thingol's power would have been intact, there still would have been lands outside his 'rightful' political claim where the noldor could have settled; they may have taken all eastern lands, for all he cared.

There is more than a hint in this passage that the Fëanorians would have been quite prepared to take lands by force

I would say that any hostility on behalf of the noldor would stem from the coolness of Thingol, his air of superiority, and perhaps a tint of disrespect.

This was the point I was trying to make, rather than that the Noldor would naturally themselves dispossess all the Sindar.

I know, I certainly didn't believe you would argue for total war. I could see the inevitability of war if all the space was confined to Beleriand, if living resources were scarce and if an insufficient amount of them would have been left for the Noldor; but there were plenty of lands up for grabs even before the rising of the sun. Some of Feanor's sons may have started a war for the heck of it, but I doubt even they fell that low

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Christopher Tolkien’s merging of the two traditions in the published Silmarillion does have some precedent in his father’s writings

An even more dramatic precedent is found in the Akallabeth, which JRRT constructed by interleaving passages from the latest versions of The Fall of Numenor and The Drowning of Anadune, togethger with new writing. Underlined on the page, it looks startlingly like a similar breakdown of Christopher's work on most of The Silmarillion.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Hello! This is possibly my first Chapter-by-Chapter post. I have read the Silmarillion, the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, am in a mind to buy the Children of Hurin, but haven't got stuck into Histories of Middle Earth or Letters of J.R.R Tolkien yet...

Anyways...

I think that we have a point in pointing out differences in Noldorian/Sindar culture. Noldor cities, even in Beleriand, were often high and powerful, though doubtlessly strongholds. Maedhros dwelt upon Himring, ’after the great defeat’, so even when Morgoth was at strength he refused to go into hiding. Nargothrond was indeed underground, and the Elves defended it by secrecy and woodsmanship, but … (searches unavailingly through the Silmarillion index) … I think the phrase used was: ’fell from the valour of the Elves of old’, or something very similar. Other fortresses belonging to the Noldor include those in the Ered Wethrin, Tol Sirion, etc. which are certainly not underground fastnesses.

Have we mentioned that this is the first chapter Luthien is mentioned?
‘The bright stars shone as silver fires, and there in the forest of Neldoreth Luthien was born, and the white flowers of niphredil came forth to greet her as stars from the earth’.