Werewolf XXXI: The Unknown Enemies

[Roa_Aoife]

*sigh* I was afraid of this. If I ever mod a game of werewolf, there will be no occupations, etc.

We have 13 people, so I highly doubt that Menel put more than 3 wolves into the mix. On the other hand, that doesn't exclude a wearbear or a cobbler. Personally, the issue means nothing to me, as we'll know soon enough if there is a werebear (by the number of kills ToNight) and a cobbler, while dangerous, is not a pressing matter until later in the game. Lovers can be as much of a danger to the wolves as us, so that can be left until later as well.

We don't know if we have a seer, hunter, or ranger, or what rules have been applied to them if they are in the game (do they know each other, can they communicate with each other, etc.) We must be extremely wary of people who come out as gifteds at any point in the game, because without knowing what we have, it would be easy for a wolf to use that as a cover. So, even if a gifted proclamation goes uncontested, it's posible that the role isn't even in the game. Gifteds, if there are any, will need proof greater than a lack of contest if they plan on revealing. Fortunately, this could be an even greater risk for the wolves, seeing as they don't know if they will be contested or not.

We could also have a mythomaniac, cursed, or birthday dreamer. The mythomaniac and the birthday dreamer could be good as easily as they could be evil, so we should let that issue be. We don't know if we have a ranger though, so if we go a night with out a kill, we cannot assume that a person was protected.

So, with that out of the way, we can stop worrying about roles which might not even be here, and just focus on catching wolves. We have no way of knowing what's out there until we lynch them or the wolves (and whatever else) kill them. (And if I've left out a role, I apologize, but I've probably never encountered it before.)

A wizards' duel had broken out in the street.

I didn't know Gurthang was in this game.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

*sigh* I was afraid of this. If I ever mod a game of werewolf, there will be no occupations, etc.

More's the pity.

We must be extremely wary of people who come out as gifteds at any point in the game, because without knowing what we have, it would be easy for a wolf to use that as a cover. So, even if a gifted proclamation goes uncontested, it's posible that the role isn't even in the game. Gifteds, if there are any, will need proof greater than a lack of contest if they plan on revealing. Fortunately, this could be an even greater risk for the wolves, seeing as they don't know if they will be contested or not.

This doesn't sit right with me. The fact is, a hunter, a ranger or a seer who's only dreamed of innocents won't have any such proof to offer, as I'm sure you know: I'd still prefer they come forward rather than be lynched! I'm not sure I like the way Roa advocates mistrust toward revealed gifteds with one breath, and points out that claiming giftedness would be a risky strategy for wolves with the next.

We could also have a mythomaniac, cursed, or birthday dreamer.

I've never heard of a birthday dreamer. What is it?

[Glirdan]

Rikae
This doesn't sit right with me. The fact is, a hunter, a ranger or a seer who's only dreamed of innocents won't have any such proof to offer, as I'm sure you know: I'd still prefer they come forward rather than be lynched! I'm not sure I like the way Roa advocates mistrust toward revealed gifteds with one breath, and points out that claiming giftedness would be a risky strategy for wolves with the next.

I'd have to agree with the actor person there, Rikae. There's something about that there....uhhh....let me check my hand for her name....uh....Brinnel..no....Mith...noooooo.....Gil...nuhuh.....Glirdan....THAT'S ME! What am I going to have for breakfast??? OOO!! Butterfly....pretty.....

What?? OH!! Right....about Roa!! Ya, that's the one. There's something bout that one there that doesn't sit right at all. No it doesn't. Too inconsistent with her....her idea's? No...her thoughts!! Ya....I want sleep.....

I agree that at this point it would be risky for them there Gifteds to proclaim themsleves. But who in their right mind would do that at this point unless they were on the verge of being lynched? So why even bring up the idea that the Gifteds should remain hidden when we all know that they will and they already have that set in their minds? It's....ummm....confusing....and....umm....unnervi ng what she said. Ya, that's what it is....Look at that flower!! It's pretty.....

Rikae
I've never heard of a birthday dreamer. What is it?

Birthday what? Dreamer what?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Rikae

This doesn't sit right with me. The fact is, a hunter, a ranger or a seer who's only dreamed of innocents won't have any such proof to offer, as I'm sure you know: I'd still prefer they come forward rather than be lynched! I'm not sure I like the way Roa advocates mistrust toward revealed gifteds with one breath, and points out that claiming giftedness would be a risky strategy for wolves with the next.

Normally, when someone comes out as a gifted, we don't know if they're telling the truth or not, and all we have is that no one else is saying "No, they're lying- it's really me!" In this game, we don't know if we even have gifted, let alone being able to tell if a "revealed gifted" is lying or not. Remember- we don't have retractable votes this game. There won't be a last minute turn around or sudden random bandwagon. At least, such an occurance is highly unlikely. If someone is feeling pressure, gifted or wolf alike, they would have to do something well before the last minute. A gifted being suspected may choose to not risk waiting it out. At the same time, a wolf may do the same, banking on the fact that the pretended role may not even really exist. Yes, it would be risky for them to do so, but far less risky, since we don't know what we have and what we don't. The wolves may be planning on using that to their advantage, and I wanted to make sure that everyone was aware of it and on the look out.

Gifteds, if they are in this game, will just have to be more clever than that.

I've never heard of a birthday dreamer. What is it?

In my understanding, a birthday dreamer gets one dream on a pre-ordained Night phase. As to whether they become the role of the person they dream of, or merely learn the identity of the person, I'm not clear on.

Glirdan, you jumped on Rikae's single point and appear to be trying to turn this into something much greater.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

What?? OH!! Right....about Roa!! Ya, that's the one. There's something bout that one there that doesn't sit right at all. No it doesn't. Too inconsistent with her....her idea's? No...her thoughts!! Ya....I want sleep.....

Inconsistent? How?

I agree that at this point it would be risky for them there Gifteds to proclaim themsleves. But who in their right mind would do that at this point unless they were on the verge of being lynched? So why even bring up the idea that the Gifteds should remain hidden when we all know that they will and they already have that set in their minds? It's....ummm....confusing....and....umm....unnervi ng what she said. Ya, that's what it is....Look at that flower!! It's pretty.....

I think you've misunderstood me entirely, or else you are intentionally misrepresenting my post. I said we shouldn't immediately believe someone who claims to be a hunter, for example, especially when we don't even know if there is a hunter. And as I pointed out to Rikae, there are no retractable votes this game. A gifted could not afford to wait until the last minute, and niether could a wolf if they wanted to use that strategy. I did not say "Gifteds should definitely not reveal," I said "Villagers should be aware that the wolves will find it a great deal easier to pose as gifteds in this village." (Paraphrased.)

Glirdan, role playing is all well and fun, but I'm bothered when people use it to cover accusations or make them look less serious, and that's what your post looks like to me. That combined with the way you jumped on Rikae's point is making you look very suspicious indeed.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Curse Macalaure and his pointy stars! I was just about to turn him into a toad, I'm sure of it!

Do you think the mystery surrounding this game will help the wolves in the long run? Reading all this, perhaps they will go for some drastic reverse-psychology as well. Do the complete opposite of what you just said! Wow, Werewolf is more confusing than I thought!

Must retire to ponder these thoughts. . .
(The Sixth Wizard pulls out a crystal ball, which promptly falls apart, and he grumbles and sticks more stickytape on the top)

Glirdan, role playing is all well and fun, but I'm bothered when people use it to cover accusations or make them look less serious, and that's what your post looks like to me. That combined with the way you jumped on Rikae's point is making you look very suspicious indeed.

I can assure you I'm not doing such a thing to confuse you, unlike Glirdan, who may well be a bad guy.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by The Sixth Wizard

Wow, Werewolf is more confusing than I thought!

You have no idea.......

I can assure you I'm not doing such a thing to confuse you, unlike Glirdan, who may well be a bad guy.

I understand the fun of it, and I've indulged myself from time to time. It's when people thread accusations with such in-character posting that my suspicions are piqued.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm off to bed. I'll be on again to vote in about 9-10 hours, before I leave for work. Hopefully people will be more active by then. Come on people, a village needs noise!

Right now, Glirdan looks the most suspicious to me, but seeing as almost 2/3 of the village haven't even shown up yet, that's not saying much.

[Brinniel]

Well, I'm sorry I didn't post immediately, but as you must realize, it can be rather difficult to type with bruised fingers. Ow... *rubs her swollen fingers*

Anyways, Day One seems to be the most difficult of days to make judgements. I can't really find anyone suspicious right now, especially when I haven't heard from very many yet. Hopefully, when I return tomorrow there will be plenty of new posts.

This whole mysterious roles thing could be...err...rather interesting. I'm certainly hoping Sixth Wizard is wrong and it won't become an advantage to the wolves in the long run. Hmm...I'm actually not sure whose advantage this will be to, if anyone at all. We'll just have to see how it plays out. But as Roa stated earlier, it is probably best we don't worry about all these mystery roles and focus lynching a wolf toDay. With that said, let us get started and begin posting people!

I can't wait up any longer and most definitely need my rest. If all goes well, this thread should at least be on page 2 by the time I return. Until later...

*attempts to get up out of chair, but somehow manages to trip over it. Brinn then falls in the most ungraceful manner taking the chair down with her*

*gets up, again ungracefully, and places chair upright*

Don't worry about me...I'm okay...

[The Sixth Wizard]

Well people, it's 6:30pm for me over here in Melbourne, and I really can't stay on the computer for much longer. If no-one has posted by my 7:00pm I'm afraid I shall have to vote anyway, as I don't really hold with the notion of getting up at 7:00am on my school holidays.

[Thinlómien]

I'm here and unfortunately must leave within an hour. (See admin thread.) Damn the lack of net access. Fortunately I will be able to post more in the Days to come (if I'm still alive).

~*~

I don't understand this attack against Roa. I think she speaks sense and I don't find myself suspecting her... (See Roa? Someone's inclined to trust you this early... bad for your fame... )

Rikae? She seems pretty innocent too. To me it seems she just misunderstood Roa.

Glirdan then... he's the one to turn heads this morning... and for a reason. His jump to support Rikae's feeble-ish accusations so early is like an example from the classic Spot-a-Wolf -book. He seems suspicious to me, yet I wonder if a wolf'd be this... obvious. Anyway, there's nothing out of his character, but if I recall correctly, this has been the case with all glirdanes whether innocent or guilty. So the point of this ramble? He is suspicious, but I'm not sure if he's guilty. I don't like making very hasty decisions. However, if further rereads bring nothing new or nothing that wakes my suspicions happens while I'm still around, I'll be voting him.

Brinn? Sixth? Gil? No idea, you can't tell much from their posts.

The others? Even less idea about them silent ones.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hai! Hay! Yoi! Hai hola! Whazzup down here, youngsters? Dis body didn't yet start to rot, and ya'll already accusing and voting! Uh, it's noon already... okay, I understand. Go check yer goats, Lommy. Go check your stuff, staff, Sixey, you lubber. We understand you have much to do.

Meanwhile! As some of you rats pointed here earlier, we cannot think we could do something clever today. Tis the first day, and unless these Howlers are totally stupid and make some mistake, then we can't hope in much evidence. So any souffy- err... soup- err...soup-his-thick-a-teeth... what? Oh, sophisticated, thank you very much - debates are of no use now. We have to wait for other days. The best we can do is to hope we'll be lucky enough today to pick a stupid Wolf, or that we are lucky enough to pick a random guy and look, he's a wolf! Well, I don't believe in miracles. "Early shots go mostly off," I always said to these little snufflers, but d'ya think they listen?
But that's not that we should sneeze at this. I know, the evidence is too feeble, feeble. The evidence is always feeble at this point! But this doesn't mean to cast chaotic or blind suspicions or to jump a bandwaggon for no reason. It's better to think for yourself. Let's look at what caught my eye, or ear, in this little debate.

Originally Posted by The Sixth Wizard

I can assure you I'm not doing such a thing to confuse you, unlike Glirdan, who may well be a bad guy.

Hay, and what's that? Man, no one accused ya of anythin' an' you say THAT? Nay don't take me wrong, but this looks strange. When me my lads returned from Dagorlad, I asked one of my lads, Zolg: Ai, why didn't you use yer bow? You were afraid, eh? He didn't answer, he had to do something first. But that little maggot Shagbag came and said: Sir, I didn't use my bow but it was because I didn't have much arrows. Know what I mean? I wasn't even going to ask him, and here he came. This is what you did, Six. I know, maybe all too stupid for a wolf, but...

As for the triangle debate happening up there, meaning Rikae, Roa, Glirdy. I have seen this before. Back then, one was a dirty wolfish Tark-lover and one a Cobbler. I don't think we have a Cobbler here, though everything's possible. But I see these talks as pretty "cookin' out of water". And one wolfy sluggard could no problem hide in there.

Only to add my opinion on that "roles-whatroles-revealing-whatever", I think we shouldn't worry that much, we can only speculate and that's about nothing, until one beautiful day the line "you have lynched your Seer" appears. But I suggest we bear in mind these posts now here, and in case someone reveals proclaiming "I'm a Ranger", double-check if what he does makes sense with what he wrote here about revealing roles.

I'm off, gonna re-read, re-check. I already have some suspects on today, but still it's the whole afternoon ahead of us and... well, just stay sharp.

EDIT: X-posted with all these guys down from the "DEATH TO YOU" scream.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

*sigh* I was afraid of this. If I ever mod a game of werewolf, there will be no occupations, etc.

Personally, the issue means nothing to me, as we'll know soon enough if there is a werebear (by the number of kills ToNight) and a cobbler, while dangerous, is not a pressing matter until later in the game. .

While I agree with much of what you said three little points :

1,Go on! Mod sometime, you'll love it ...

2, Because we don't know about rangers, a single kill tonight wouln't absolutely exclude a werebear.

3, I wish my last village had relised that about cobblers

[Mithalwen]

I don't see what is so suspicious about Roa ..we all know she likes to get peopletalking and likes to analyse. Since this game has more or less unlimited variables it doesn't give her much to work on so what else to talk about is the possibilities. And she is spot on to say that it is suspicius for gifteds to declare. For myself I will almost vote to lynch anyone who declares as a hunter this game. I always think it is self defeating for a hunter to declare and this game where there could be no hunters or two hunters it would make a great cover for a wolf.

Other roles used but not mentioned are Shirriffs and wasn't there a weaver once ..I remember talk of it but not if it were actually used and what it did.

Mythomaniacs previously don't take their role until Night 2 since the idea is that it is a choice informed by the first day's observation.

[Mithalwen]

Well I will have to get back to work in a couple of minutes ..I hope that it is a bit livelier when I return....... actually that is a bit of a cert since Noggin should be arount ....

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Mith

And she is spot on to say that it is suspicius for gifteds to declare.

I'd rather a more important gifted (the Hunter isn't that important) declared themselves rather than letting themselves be killed. THat would be a huge blow, losing a gifted by our own hands.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

I'd rather a more important gifted (the Hunter isn't that important) declared themselves rather than letting themselves be killed. THat would be a huge blow, losing a gifted by our own hands.

Of course it is a blow but if a ranger declares they will die that night anyway and a seer may not be able to be protected. Given that there are no retractables, what do we do? Sacrifice an innocent in all likelihood then provide the wolves with a "no brainer" kill. Obviously individual circumstances apply but IAm speaking from the perspective of someone who panicked into declaring both times and it was less than ideal...

[the guy who be short]

It's better to lynch anybody and have a chance of getting a wolf than to lynch a Seer/Ranger. If they are in a position where they are likely to be lynched, that means they will die anyway. They may as well declare, let the wolves get them at night and let the village try to get a wolf in the day rather than killing the gifted.

Like you, I am talking generally and individual circumstances apply. In any case it will be up to the gifted when they're about to snuff it to decide what to do. No point speculating any further.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Glirdan, about Lommy

She first votes for me. Then she goes on to say that the evidence is feeble ad that she would like to hear my response but is votingon my because I'm the most suspicious when almost 1/3 of the players have not voted yet. Now, I take into account her time zone problem as that is why I myself have to vote now.

If you have to vote, you have to vote. And if you only have one miserable suspect then you might vote for that one, though you would rather not.


I don't want to defend Roa ( ), but I don't see anything suspicious about her first post. There was nothing else to talk about at the time but roleplay, and her points make sense. It's better to state that gifteds have a more difficult task revealing themselves early on Day One than when the situation is at hand and everybody panics.

Originally Posted by Legate

The best we can do is to hope we'll be lucky enough today to pick a stupid Wolf, or that we are lucky enough to pick a random guy and look, he's a wolf! Well, I don't believe in miracles.

Not so pessimistic, my Chieftain! There are more stupid wolves than one might think, and even smart wolves can be caught early.. sometimes.


I would suggest to not be too strict about my companion in wizardry, the Sixth Wizard. It's not nice to lynch somebody on the first Day of his first game, especially when he's no longer there to defend himself.