Christopher Tolkien to finish lost Middle Earth novel - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Maglor · 03-20-2007, 07:57 PM

Very excited about this.

I'm wondering (though certainly not complaining) from whence came this wealth of material that comprises a narrative of, by my count, approximately 227 pages when the Narn clocks in at fewer than 100. And all done apparently "without distortion or invention"? Interesting.

Though I'm slighly disappointed to find that the tale may not come "full circle" with the death of Hurin, despite the stylistic needs for cropping it out. I wonder what Christopher will say about it in his notes included in the publication.

**lindil** · 03-21-2007, 07:11 AM

maglor:

Quote:

I'm wondering (though certainly not complaining) from whence came this wealth of material that comprises a narrative of, by my count, approximately 227 pages when the Narn clocks in at fewer than 100.

I recall from UT notes that CJRT said something to the effect of: " most of the Silmarillion versions of the tale of turin, where compressed from the UT length versions. So every time he sends you back to the Silm in the UT footnotes, that should all be inculded now in non-compressed form.

He may have found new material- post HoME XII.

just finished looking at the info on Amazon.uk. CJRT's process sounds like it was a close cousin to our own methods in TFTE forums.

Hopefully there are more 'final edition' Silm chapters on the way.

the guy who be short · 03-21-2007, 09:54 AM

Hmm. I make CT's version 230 pages.

The UT version is 112 pages + 11 pages from the Silm (Between Of Mim and The Return of Turin to Dor-Lomin in UT) plus about 12 pages from the Notes in UT. Which is 135 pages - in paperback.

I don't have HoME and I don't remember how much extra material is in there, but it does look like we'll be getting 100 extra pages from somewhere or other.

Mithalwen · 03-21-2007, 11:01 AM

Well a lot depends on type setting ..... my editions take it up to about 175 in paperback and small type - I think there is more in HoME and CT is likely to be thorough with his notes and appendices ..but a change of font could account for a lot...

davem · 03-21-2007, 12:04 PM

And add in 8 colour plates & 25 b&w illustrations.......that's another 30 odd pages.....

Maglor · 03-21-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Hmm. I make CT's version 230 pages.

The UT version is 112 pages + 11 pages from the Silm (Between Of Mim and The Return of Turin to Dor-Lomin in UT) plus about 12 pages from the Notes in UT. Which is 135 pages - in paperback.

I don't have HoME and I don't remember how much extra material is in there, but it does look like we'll be getting 100 extra pages from somewhere or other.

My 227 was a rough approximation based on the Table of Contents previously posted (The Tables start on 261 so I took one off from that and subtracted 33, the page on which "The Childhood Of Hurin" begins). But no matter how you slice it, it's 220+ pages worth of the actual narrative, apart from the pages taken for illustrations (which I'd forgotten about--thanks davem).

My version of the Narn has the fluid story as under 100 pages, and about 20 more if you include the notes and appendix. Of course, font makes a difference as well.

In any case, I'm interested to see the stuff that is "new" or expanded, because there has to be some to reach the apparent length we've been given.

Mithalwen · 03-21-2007, 12:46 PM

"So in conclusion : Many parts of the text are essentially the same as those that appear in other works (and particularly "Unfinished Tales"), other parts will be new except for those readers who have read in detail the History of Middle Earth.
The text as a whole can be said to be "new" as it is a recomposition of published texts and other "pieces" that weren't published previously. A completed puzzle, in a sense."

Maglor:

This is a quote from an interview with Christopher's son Adam linked by Cof7A in post 36 of this thread . So nothing much new to those who have read HoME but newly presented as an entity.. but the article is well worth reading...

davem · 03-21-2007, 03:46 PM

According to the Tolkien.co.uk website countdown timer http://www.tolkien.co.uk/ the book will be published in (at time of writing) 26 days 1 hour & 15 minutes - ie at 11pm.

Can we expect a Harry Potter like late night opening at the bookstores, with queuing fans dressed up in their M-e costumes?

Mithalwen · 03-21-2007, 03:49 PM

Proabably best not to go as spellbound Nienor fleeing from the Orc attack

..bit chilly...

Maglor · 04-10-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Maglor:

This is a quote from an interview with Christopher's son Adam linked by Cof7A in post 36 of this thread . So nothing much new to those who have read HoME but newly presented as an entity.. but the article is well worth reading...

Wow...sorry it took so long to respond to this. And then the thread closed, but it's back now, so...

I did read the interview mentioned (it was a good one too) and I did see the quote that you posted, that it is essentially a completed puzzle more than a fresh retelling.

But this quote (from the same article)...

"Many parts of the text will be - if not identical - recognizable to the knowledgeable reader, but there are also pieces that have never appeared before." (emphasis mine)

...gave me the impression that there will be *some* new material, even if it is minimal. I agree with what everyone has said already, that it's basically the same story in the most complete sense, but I still think we may be treated to a little new material, those nothing so large as to alter the plot significantly. Just minor touches, I'm guessing.

But we'll find out soon, won't we?

Lalwendë · 04-11-2007, 03:46 AM

Children of Hurin is now Number 3 in the Amazon.co.uk bestseller list! Just behind Harry Potter!

03-21-2007, 11:01 AM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Well a lot depends on type setting ..... my editions take it up to about 175 in paperback and small type - I think there is more in HoME and CT is likely to be thorough with his notes and appendices ..but a change of font could account for a lot... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-21-2007, 12:04 PM	#5
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	And add in 8 colour plates & 25 b&w illustrations.......that's another 30 odd pages..... __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

03-21-2007, 12:46 PM	#7
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	"So in conclusion : Many parts of the text are essentially the same as those that appear in other works (and particularly "Unfinished Tales"), other parts will be new except for those readers who have read in detail the History of Middle Earth. The text as a whole can be said to be "new" as it is a recomposition of published texts and other "pieces" that weren't published previously. A completed puzzle, in a sense." Maglor: This is a quote from an interview with Christopher's son Adam linked by Cof7A in post 36 of this thread . So nothing much new to those who have read HoME but newly presented as an entity.. but the article is well worth reading... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 03-21-2007 at 12:49 PM.

03-21-2007, 03:46 PM	#8
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	So, who's going to get the book at 11 'o' clock at night? According to the Tolkien.co.uk website countdown timer http://www.tolkien.co.uk/ the book will be published in (at time of writing) 26 days 1 hour & 15 minutes - ie at 11pm. Can we expect a Harry Potter like late night opening at the bookstores, with queuing fans dressed up in their M-e costumes? __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

03-21-2007, 03:49 PM	#9
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Proabably best not to go as spellbound Nienor fleeing from the Orc attack ..bit chilly... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-20-2007, 07:57 PM	#1
Maglor Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 25	Very excited about this. I'm wondering (though certainly not complaining) from whence came this wealth of material that comprises a narrative of, by my count, approximately 227 pages when the Narn clocks in at fewer than 100. And all done apparently "without distortion or invention"? Interesting. Though I'm slighly disappointed to find that the tale may not come "full circle" with the death of Hurin, despite the stylistic needs for cropping it out. I wonder what Christopher will say about it in his notes included in the publication.

03-21-2007, 09:54 AM	#3
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Hmm. I make CT's version 230 pages. The UT version is 112 pages + 11 pages from the Silm (Between Of Mim and The Return of Turin to Dor-Lomin in UT) plus about 12 pages from the Notes in UT. Which is 135 pages - in paperback. I don't have HoME and I don't remember how much extra material is in there, but it does look like we'll be getting 100 extra pages from somewhere or other.

04-11-2007, 03:46 AM	#11
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Children of Hurin is now Number 3 in the Amazon.co.uk bestseller list! Just behind Harry Potter! __________________ Gordon's alive!