LotR3-RotK-Seq24 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Essex · 03-12-2007, 02:03 PM

I said we WANT. Not we GET. Of course we want the film to be as close to the book as it is. Except maybe for the couple of mistakes Tolkien himself made in the editing of his timelines, etc. (Sorry, just being picky with the Bard)

So let's scrap the entire scene and have Sam wake up and meet Gandalf with Frodo already awake. As it's this in the books, then let's have that. But do you really think we the readers can dictate what will be on a Movie adaptation just becasue it's not exactly like it is in the books? So therefore, let's not have a reunion scene with the main characters. For the uninitiated, non book reader (which I put it to you were the VAST majority of people going to see this movie, first time at least!), NOT to have a 'happy ending(s)' like this with the characters celebrating together would be silly.

alatar · 03-16-2007, 01:18 PM

Again, I've let go and have immersed myself in PJ's world, which is based on, however loosely, on Tolkien's work. We can use the books for guidance but need to tell the story well in the media that we use.

Regardless of whether PJ follows the books or makes up a scene from whole new cloth, he should be at least consistent with the story, characters, 'feel' of the movie and arc. By this scene one would hope that the characters were set for the most part. Why then, after having Merry and Pippin "grow" do we have to jump back to their origins of being selfish fools, then just thereafter, when they return to the Shire, behave more as one would expect.

Essex · 03-17-2007, 08:16 AM

so Sam, as I have shown above, was allowed to 'regress' in the book - why can't Merry and Pippin show their joy in the movie? I think this is nit picking to the nth degree.

alatar · 03-18-2007, 08:11 PM

I did not see the scene where Sam cries as overblown nor out of character, much less creepy. Bottom line - I did not like Merry and Pippin's behaviour in the scene, just as you think that 'President' Bill Pullman's immortal words in ID4 are hokey.

I can see that we've reached an impasse. I hope to listen to what the actors think about this scene, and will report on how they agree with me...or what they think soon.

alatar · 03-19-2007, 11:29 AM

In the Cast Commentary, Elijah Wood describes the scene as "a little bit Dorothy waking up, being in Oz..." and it seems at least to me that Elijah has some doubts about the scene, but PJ reassures him that all will be well - need I say more?

Orlando Bloom states that Merry and Pippin's entrance and demeanor were "perfect."

Elijah calls it the "laughter scene," and adds more about how much everyone was laughing. Sean Astin describes it as "angelic and beautiful." When Merry dives on the bed, Dominic Monaghan says that he didn't know what he was doing there, "but Pete obviously must have liked it."

Peter Jackson states that it would be a difficult scene, and that he asked Ian's (McKellan) advice, which was for everyone to laugh. Philippa Boyens says that "some people hate this stuff" and so she must have received my letter

.

The Production team states that these scenes are "coda," and that the movie really ended with Frodo in the Eagle's clutches. There seems to have been the choice of all smiles or laughter, and we see which the team chose. Gandalf and the hobbits are actually in the scene together, and the other "heroes" are digitally stitched in, which may explain why they react differently, not seeing what's going on. Someone from this team states that the scene was originally longer, with the action in even more slow-motion, but the scene was sped up as it was deemed pretty much unnecessary. The point from this team's point of view that the thought was to reunite Frodo with Gandalf, and the rest was 'extra.'

Just thought you might want to know.

03-16-2007, 01:18 PM	#2
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Again, I've let go and have immersed myself in PJ's world, which is based on, however loosely, on Tolkien's work. We can use the books for guidance but need to tell the story well in the media that we use. Regardless of whether PJ follows the books or makes up a scene from whole new cloth, he should be at least consistent with the story, characters, 'feel' of the movie and arc. By this scene one would hope that the characters were set for the most part. Why then, after having Merry and Pippin "grow" do we have to jump back to their origins of being selfish fools, then just thereafter, when they return to the Shire, behave more as one would expect. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

03-18-2007, 08:11 PM	#4
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	I did not see the scene where Sam cries as overblown nor out of character, much less creepy. Bottom line - I did not like Merry and Pippin's behaviour in the scene, just as you think that 'President' Bill Pullman's immortal words in ID4 are hokey. I can see that we've reached an impasse. I hope to listen to what the actors think about this scene, and will report on how they agree with me...or what they think soon. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

03-19-2007, 11:29 AM	#5
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	In the Cast Commentary, Elijah Wood describes the scene as "a little bit Dorothy waking up, being in Oz..." and it seems at least to me that Elijah has some doubts about the scene, but PJ reassures him that all will be well - need I say more? Orlando Bloom states that Merry and Pippin's entrance and demeanor were "perfect." Elijah calls it the "laughter scene," and adds more about how much everyone was laughing. Sean Astin describes it as "angelic and beautiful." When Merry dives on the bed, Dominic Monaghan says that he didn't know what he was doing there, "but Pete obviously must have liked it." Peter Jackson states that it would be a difficult scene, and that he asked Ian's (McKellan) advice, which was for everyone to laugh. Philippa Boyens says that "some people hate this stuff" and so she must have received my letter . The Production team states that these scenes are "coda," and that the movie really ended with Frodo in the Eagle's clutches. There seems to have been the choice of all smiles or laughter, and we see which the team chose. Gandalf and the hobbits are actually in the scene together, and the other "heroes" are digitally stitched in, which may explain why they react differently, not seeing what's going on. Someone from this team states that the scene was originally longer, with the action in even more slow-motion, but the scene was sped up as it was deemed pretty much unnecessary. The point from this team's point of view that the thought was to reunite Frodo with Gandalf, and the rest was 'extra.' Just thought you might want to know. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

03-12-2007, 02:03 PM	#1
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	I said we WANT. Not we GET. Of course we want the film to be as close to the book as it is. Except maybe for the couple of mistakes Tolkien himself made in the editing of his timelines, etc. (Sorry, just being picky with the Bard) So let's scrap the entire scene and have Sam wake up and meet Gandalf with Frodo already awake. As it's this in the books, then let's have that. But do you really think we the readers can dictate what will be on a Movie adaptation just becasue it's not exactly like it is in the books? So therefore, let's not have a reunion scene with the main characters. For the uninitiated, non book reader (which I put it to you were the VAST majority of people going to see this movie, first time at least!), NOT to have a 'happy ending(s)' like this with the characters celebrating together would be silly.

03-17-2007, 08:16 AM	#3
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	so Sam, as I have shown above, was allowed to 'regress' in the book - why can't Merry and Pippin show their joy in the movie? I think this is nit picking to the nth degree.