Words and Names in Tolkien's Work - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thinlómien · 03-12-2007, 06:23 AM

This is a very interesting topic. And, of course, I'd like to introduce the Finnish point of view.

While exploring the Sindarin and Quenya vocabulary you find delightingly many words that have to do with Finnish. Sindarin gannel for 'harp' is very similar to kannel (the Finnish national instrument which is related to the harp). Also tië for 'path' is almost the same as Finnish tie 'road'. I've also wondered if the stem lin- 'sing' has to do with the Finnish word lintu 'bird', but that might be a bit far-fetched.

It is also very interesting that in Quenya -atar is a masculine ending since it means 'father', but in Finnish the ending -tar (or -tär) is feminine, eg. kuningas (king) -> kuningatar (queen), tarjoilija (waiter) -> tarjoilijatar (waitress) and so on... No wonder I thought Ilúvatar to be female while first seeing his name...

Aganzir · 03-14-2007, 12:41 PM

There are some words and phrases I've always associated with Finnish.

The word ainu resembles a lot the Finnish word ainoa and the slang form ainut, which mean 'only, single, sole'. Since the Ainur once (except for Ilúvatar) were the only ones existing and inhabiting Arda, I find it no weird at all that they might be respectfully named The Only Ones. Of course, this may be a little bit far-fetched, and I don't think Tolkien really intended to name the Valar after such a word, but it's too easy to interpret it like that.

I also had fun when reading the first part of the Books of Lost Tales. There was a picture of the world, in the shape of a ship. It was called I Vene Kemen, 'The Shape of the Earth' or 'The Vessel of the Earth'. As kemen is the word for earth, vene should be the word for vessel. However, vene happens to be the Finnish word for boat. The same word is repeated in the name Kalavénë, the Ship of Light. Kala means a fish. As a Finn I had problems not to laugh at the magnificent name of the Sunship. I believe it might not be an accident that vene seems to mean a ship or a vessel, but kala has nothing to do with light.

Koivië-néni, the earlier form of Cuiviénen, reminds me of the Finnish words koivu (birch) and niemi (cape). It's not hard to connect koivië to koivu, but I'm not sure if I associate néni with niemi just because of a Finnish nursery tale: little children are scared by telling stories of evil Koivuniemen herra, Lord of Koivuniemi, who will come and give them a beating if they don't behave themselves.

William Cloud Hicklin · 03-23-2007, 12:20 PM

Has anyone not pointed out that Thingol is simply the regular Sindarin formation of Quenya Sindicollo? It's analysed Thin-gol, not Thing-ol.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 03-23-2007, 05:38 PM

I pointed out above that it's Sindarin, formulated in that language on the basis of phonological and grammatical rules that were independent of the story of Thingol, and I also quoted Tolkien on the subject of reading meanings into his names. I didn't point out the meaning because I thought that would be enough. It was offered as a brief caveat lector before starting the more amusing business of dreaming up possible meanings.

All just a bit of fun really.

03-12-2007, 06:23 AM	#1
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Finnish, that lovely language... This is a very interesting topic. And, of course, I'd like to introduce the Finnish point of view. While exploring the Sindarin and Quenya vocabulary you find delightingly many words that have to do with Finnish. Sindarin gannel for 'harp' is very similar to kannel (the Finnish national instrument which is related to the harp). Also tië for 'path' is almost the same as Finnish tie 'road'. I've also wondered if the stem lin- 'sing' has to do with the Finnish word lintu 'bird', but that might be a bit far-fetched. It is also very interesting that in Quenya -atar is a masculine ending since it means 'father', but in Finnish the ending -tar (or -tär) is feminine, eg. kuningas (king) -> kuningatar (queen), tarjoilija (waiter) -> tarjoilijatar (waitress) and so on... No wonder I thought Ilúvatar to be female while first seeing his name... __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

03-14-2007, 12:41 PM	#2
Aganzir Woman of Secret Shadow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells Posts: 4,511	Continuing with Finnish words There are some words and phrases I've always associated with Finnish. The word ainu resembles a lot the Finnish word ainoa and the slang form ainut, which mean 'only, single, sole'. Since the Ainur once (except for Ilúvatar) were the only ones existing and inhabiting Arda, I find it no weird at all that they might be respectfully named The Only Ones. Of course, this may be a little bit far-fetched, and I don't think Tolkien really intended to name the Valar after such a word, but it's too easy to interpret it like that. I also had fun when reading the first part of the Books of Lost Tales. There was a picture of the world, in the shape of a ship. It was called I Vene Kemen, 'The Shape of the Earth' or 'The Vessel of the Earth'. As kemen is the word for earth, vene should be the word for vessel. However, vene happens to be the Finnish word for boat. The same word is repeated in the name Kalavénë, the Ship of Light. Kala means a fish. As a Finn I had problems not to laugh at the magnificent name of the Sunship. I believe it might not be an accident that vene seems to mean a ship or a vessel, but kala has nothing to do with light. Koivië-néni, the earlier form of Cuiviénen, reminds me of the Finnish words koivu (birch) and niemi (cape). It's not hard to connect koivië to koivu, but I'm not sure if I associate néni with niemi just because of a Finnish nursery tale: little children are scared by telling stories of evil Koivuniemen herra, Lord of Koivuniemi, who will come and give them a beating if they don't behave themselves. __________________ He bit me, and I was not gentle.

03-23-2007, 05:38 PM	#4
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	In a way, yes. I pointed out above that it's Sindarin, formulated in that language on the basis of phonological and grammatical rules that were independent of the story of Thingol, and I also quoted Tolkien on the subject of reading meanings into his names. I didn't point out the meaning because I thought that would be enough. It was offered as a brief caveat lector before starting the more amusing business of dreaming up possible meanings. All just a bit of fun really. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

03-23-2007, 12:20 PM	#3
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Has anyone not pointed out that Thingol is simply the regular Sindarin formation of Quenya Sindicollo? It's analysed Thin-gol, not Thing-ol.