Enemies

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Raynor

You are making a big leap from presumed individual cultural violence (I see no reason behind his statement other than dislike of an instance when an alien language was used probably in its worst form) to institutional violence. That's a slippery slope fallacy, since I know of no other argument to support this idea..

Saying that someone's language is not language but merely "the scream of birds and the bellowing of beasts" goes way beyond mere dislike. Eomer may not be jumping in the face of a Dunlending and making mocking ape noises but the thoughts he expresses are the same thing. And this is why Tolkien takes the care to give Gamling the words of reason, of intelligence, to put him right.

Bear in mind that Eomer is also one of the powerful elite of Rohan, one of the establishment, a leader. It is his responsibility to set an example, and if that example is one of racism then it is not good. But Tolkien gives him a wise soldier who will correct him. Maybe Tolkien himself may have had to do this to his own superiors in war? The attitudes of the English in general towards Germans are apalling and have been for a very long time (way before WWI) - Tolkien on the other hand was much more understanding, as expressed in his letter about the ridiculous idea of the German people being 'exterminated' as some spurious 'punishment' for WWII. I don't doubt his understanding sprang from his skill and love of language.

Originally Posted by Raynor

We know that the besieged retaliated; some while back, even Legolas claims some 20 casualties. We have evidence of other cause, and no direct evidence of Rohirrim attacking weaponless orcs.

I'm talking of after Gandalf turns up with the cavalry and the Orcs: "reeled and screamed and cast aside both sword and spear." Tolkien then says: "Like a black smoke driven by a mounting wind they fled. Wailing they passed under the waiting shadow of the trees; and from that shadow none ever came again. " That explains that the trees 'ate' some, but then later we read: "No Orcs remained alive; their bodies were uncounted. But a great many of the hillmen had given themselves up; and they were afraid, and cried for mercy."

Not clear at all what happens in between.