Charisma?

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Raynor

the fact remains that they are exponants of the common people in uncommon situations.

By all means this is opinion, not fact. I think you are trying to give them too much of an ordinary make up. Take a look at some of The Fellowship- Boromir was son and heir to the Steward of Gondor, Gondor's most renown warrior. People in Gondor looked up to him. He was not considered "ordinary" by his folk, I'm sure. Aragorn can claim kingship to Gondor and he is known amongst the very wise of Middle-earth. The only true argument you could give would be for the Hobbits, but really, only Sam applies at first. As Formendacil said, Merry, Pippin, and Frodo were well off and for the most part, well known in their respective provinces.

[Raynor]

By all means this is opinion, not fact.

By all means? Tolkien reffers repeatedely to this aspect of his work. I will try to give later the exact quotes I reffered to and their location. No more trust these days

Take a look at some of The Fellowship- Boromir was son and heir to the Steward of Gondor, Gondor's most renown warrior. People in Gondor looked up to him. He was not considered "ordinary" by his folk, I'm sure. Aragorn can claim kingship to Gondor and he is known amongst the very wise of Middle-earth.

I was reffering strictly to hobbits. Sorry if I wasn't clear in that respect.

The only true argument you could give would be for the Hobbits, but really, only Sam applies at first.

However, Tolkien reffers to him as the main hero. I don't have the books nearby, but it is his "hobbitry" that helps him face the temptation of the ring, or even the challenge of saving Frodo.

As Formendacil said, Merry, Pippin, and Frodo were well off and for the most part, well known in their respective provinces.

I am not aware that being well off is somehow related to being simple. Many extraordinary gifted persons, in whatever area you want, appear among the poor. The reverse is true, many "well off" persons are as simple as you can get, in whatever perspective you want. The conclusion would be that being well off is not a criterion for judging "normality", or commonness, and the likes.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Raynor

I was reffering strictly to hobbits. Sorry if I wasn't clear in that respect.

Gotcha. No problem.

Originally Posted by Raynor

However, Tolkien reffers to him as the main hero. I don't have the books nearby, but it is his "hobbitry" that helps him face the temptation of the ring, or even the challenge of saving Frodo.

This is true, I believe you're talking about the quote from the Letters.

Originally Posted by Raynor

I am not aware that being well off is somehow related to being simple. Many extraordinary gifted persons, in whatever area you want, appear among the poor. The reverse is true, many "well off" persons are as simple as you can get, in whatever perspective you want. The conclusion would be that being well off is not a criterion for judging "normality", or commonness, and the likes.

By all means, I'm not disagreeing with you on this, for the above is true. My argument was more about the other members, in which you didn't mean to speak of in the first place.

[Beanamir of Gondor]

Fellow obsessors, I created a new thread in the Books where we can take on the idea of charisma in the novels, because I agree with Elladan and Elrohir... it feels like the original thread was about acting ability.
Yet I love the character charisma ranting! So here's the thread.
http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/sho...939#post511939
Feel free to ignore my post when you get there. I had to put some text in it.

[Mithalwen]

Charisma is also seemingly subjective. I find Ian McKellen so mannered and hammy I could boil him for Christmas but Viggo Mortensen just became Aragorn (and I haven't found him anything like as impressive in other roles).....

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

. . .I find Ian McKellen so mannered and hammy I could boil him for Christmas but Viggo Mortensen just became Aragorn (and I haven't found him anything like as impressive in other roles).....

I take it you read Book Aragorn as indecisive, unsure, ratty, possibly a prince if not king of ham...let--but without the philosophising of course? You must be a horse lover then.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I take it you read Book Aragorn as indecisive, unsure, ratty, possibly a prince if not king of ham...let--but without the philosophising of course? You must be a horse lover then.

I don't blame him for the script .... but I think screen Aragorn is more sympathetic in some aspects. Book Aragorn is liable to be pompous, priggish, and generally a bit of a stuffed shirt ... I did open a poll elsewhere after TTT came out which showed that 97% believed that the the horse was a better kisser than Arwen but I don't think that is what you mean.....