Breaking of the World - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 02-02-2007, 10:20 PM

Well, it's obvious that the events that occurred in The Lord of the Rings are antediluvian, so the second breaking of the world obviously refers to the Biblical Flood.

......just kidding.....

Celebdil · 02-03-2007, 12:21 AM

Thanks Legate,

After reading it again, I think you're right. For some reason it sounded like he lay there for an age or so and then at last the world was broken again. But I think your interpretation makes much more sense. Thanks!

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-03-2007, 02:57 AM

Well, in the Silmarillion, there are lots of graves that "remained/not remained there until the world was changed" (but this was even before the Breaking of Beleriand), so I think if you have read this, no wonder that the part about Aragorn Elessar implies something similar.

The Sixth Wizard · 02-03-2007, 06:07 AM

This will sound very unproffessional, seeing as I have no idea where I heard this or a viable quote, but in one of the Lost Tales or something, Mandos makes a prophecy that on the day of the Final Battle Morgoth will find the way to break the Door of Night, will fight on the very plains of Valinor itself against every goodie ever made, versus every baddie ever made, and evil will be conquered forever. Turin Turambar will be the one to slay Morgoth, and Feanor will come back from the dead, aid Yavanna in restoring the Two Trees, and all Men and Elves will live together in harmony forever. (The Dwarves will aid in the restoration of Arda, as will the Ents).

But I think Tolkien scrapped this story eventually anyway, so I agree with Legate that it was referring to the pre-Numenor world, not the post-Gondor world.

mhagain · 02-03-2007, 07:41 AM

That would be the Second Prophecy of Mandos, which survived into the 1937 "Silmarillion", and which I don't think was ever conclusively discarded by the man himself.

Elmo · 02-04-2007, 08:20 AM

Just a thought if Middle Earth is meant to be the past then the continents are in a completly different shape then what they are now how did they get this way. 6000 years is no where near the time continent drift needs to change the land mass significantly. Perhaps the second breaking caused this?

mhagain · 02-04-2007, 02:06 PM

It's anybody's guess, but here's a very interesting picture somebody did once:

http://element.ess.ucla.edu/pictures/Middle-Earth.jpg

The Sixth Wizard · 02-04-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhagain

That would be the Second Prophecy of Mandos, which survived into the 1937 "Silmarillion", and which I don't think was ever conclusively discarded by the man himself.

Thanks!

Elmo · 02-05-2007, 10:06 AM

If Middle Earth is not in based in the 'real' world how come Tolkien said we were probably in the sixth or seventh age?

02-02-2007, 10:20 PM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Well, it's obvious that the events that occurred in The Lord of the Rings are antediluvian, so the second breaking of the world obviously refers to the Biblical Flood. ......just kidding..... Last edited by littlemanpoet; 02-04-2007 at 08:35 PM.

02-03-2007, 02:57 AM	#3
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well, in the Silmarillion, there are lots of graves that "remained/not remained there until the world was changed" (but this was even before the Breaking of Beleriand), so I think if you have read this, no wonder that the part about Aragorn Elessar implies something similar. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-04-2007, 08:20 AM	#6
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	Just a thought if Middle Earth is meant to be the past then the continents are in a completly different shape then what they are now how did they get this way. 6000 years is no where near the time continent drift needs to change the land mass significantly. Perhaps the second breaking caused this? __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

02-05-2007, 10:06 AM	#9
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	If Middle Earth is not in based in the 'real' world how come Tolkien said we were probably in the sixth or seventh age? __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

02-03-2007, 12:21 AM	#2
Celebdil Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 17	Thanks Legate, After reading it again, I think you're right. For some reason it sounded like he lay there for an age or so and then at last the world was broken again. But I think your interpretation makes much more sense. Thanks!

02-03-2007, 06:07 AM	#4
The Sixth Wizard Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stuck under a rock in Valinor with Ar-Pharazon. Posts: 480	This will sound very unproffessional, seeing as I have no idea where I heard this or a viable quote, but in one of the Lost Tales or something, Mandos makes a prophecy that on the day of the Final Battle Morgoth will find the way to break the Door of Night, will fight on the very plains of Valinor itself against every goodie ever made, versus every baddie ever made, and evil will be conquered forever. Turin Turambar will be the one to slay Morgoth, and Feanor will come back from the dead, aid Yavanna in restoring the Two Trees, and all Men and Elves will live together in harmony forever. (The Dwarves will aid in the restoration of Arda, as will the Ents). But I think Tolkien scrapped this story eventually anyway, so I agree with Legate that it was referring to the pre-Numenor world, not the post-Gondor world.

02-03-2007, 07:41 AM	#5
mhagain Wight Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch Posts: 219	That would be the Second Prophecy of Mandos, which survived into the 1937 "Silmarillion", and which I don't think was ever conclusively discarded by the man himself.

02-04-2007, 02:06 PM	#7
mhagain Wight Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch Posts: 219	It's anybody's guess, but here's a very interesting picture somebody did once: http://element.ess.ucla.edu/pictures/Middle-Earth.jpg