Elf Rights Watch needed? Yet again a new Míriel thread!

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Daven wrote:


Meseems their fates are actually very different. We do not know what happens to the Numenoreans, since we do not know what happens to humans after death; but we do know that they were removed from Arda (not necessarily from existence). Miriel is not even removed from Arda - her spirit goes to Mandos while her body lies in Lorien. But this is not the end of the tale (see HoMe X): later, after Finwe is killed, Miriel is granted permission to leave Mandos, on the condition that Finwe remain there. This she does, returning to her body and later becoming the chief handmaid of Vaire.

I've just been reading this.

Incidentally, page 237 of HoME X gives a much more gentle picture of this story - Finwe asks Manwe if something might be done; Manwe decides to ask Miriel and she says she would like to remain where she is and asks that Finwe be allowed to remarry. Here too, the great debate takes place afterwards and it is more about the implications of what has happened, than a decision on what to do.

But back to what Aiwendil says. This is again much more palatable in many ways. And of course what would the Valar have done when Finwe came to Mandos? That would have been a sticky old mess.

I get the feeling that as this was all drafted in the 50s, with the express purpose of working through these concepts and plot/philosophy issues, whereas the Shibboleth was written in the late 60s with the purpose of looking at language, the 'word' on this issue should be taken as the earlier drafts.