Elf Rights Watch needed? Yet again a new Míriel thread! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 01-26-2007, 03:14 PM

Miriel's 'sin' is equivalent to that of the Numenoreans. They reject the gift of Eru to Men, desiring an escape from death. She desires an escape from life. The fate of both is the same effectively - removal from existence.

The point is that both Elves & Men have an obligation to follow the rules of their nature & must face the consequences of willful refusal. Miriel, if she is capable of returning to life, has no right not to. Hence she either cannot return to a full life in the world, or she is essentially breaking the 'Law'. As the Valar have an obligation to uphold the Law they were put into a difficult situation. Finwe's claim was legitimate (ie within the Law) Miriel's demand was not.

Or, from another point of view, such an event could not escape the attention of the Valar - they had to be involved in some way, & have the final say in what happened. Of course, Tolkien could have changed the story, but that would have changed Feanor's character & motivation as given. So, Miriel must be 'replaced' by Indis & the Valar must play a major part in what happens, because they could not be left out of it. Finwe marries Indis & thus we get the spark of the whole drama of the rebellion in the devastating effect this event has on Feanor.

Thus Tolkien must construct a justifcation for what happens which includes the Valar, & we get the account given in the Shibboleth.

Note, Tolkien does not say he approves of what the Valar did - merely that that is what they did, that what they did was based on the Rules of the World which Miriel broke. We may sympathise with Miriel's plight (we may also sympathise with what drove the Numenoreans - they didn't want to die) but what she wanted was against the Rules, & the obligation she had as an incarnate. It seems to me that Finwe effectively backed the Valar into a corner & demanded a decision one way or another. The Valar's decision may not strike us as either fair or politically correct, but it is certainly according to the Rules which bound them as well as the Elves.

Its also pretty clear that Feanor was just as offended as most of us, & probably played major part in his anger against the Valar. He too felt the decision was wrong.

01-26-2007, 03:14 PM	#6
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Miriel's 'sin' is equivalent to that of the Numenoreans. They reject the gift of Eru to Men, desiring an escape from death. She desires an escape from life. The fate of both is the same effectively - removal from existence. The point is that both Elves & Men have an obligation to follow the rules of their nature & must face the consequences of willful refusal. Miriel, if she is capable of returning to life, has no right not to. Hence she either cannot return to a full life in the world, or she is essentially breaking the 'Law'. As the Valar have an obligation to uphold the Law they were put into a difficult situation. Finwe's claim was legitimate (ie within the Law) Miriel's demand was not. Or, from another point of view, such an event could not escape the attention of the Valar - they had to be involved in some way, & have the final say in what happened. Of course, Tolkien could have changed the story, but that would have changed Feanor's character & motivation as given. So, Miriel must be 'replaced' by Indis & the Valar must play a major part in what happens, because they could not be left out of it. Finwe marries Indis & thus we get the spark of the whole drama of the rebellion in the devastating effect this event has on Feanor. Thus Tolkien must construct a justifcation for what happens which includes the Valar, & we get the account given in the Shibboleth. Note, Tolkien does not say he approves of what the Valar did - merely that that is what they did, that what they did was based on the Rules of the World which Miriel broke. We may sympathise with Miriel's plight (we may also sympathise with what drove the Numenoreans - they didn't want to die) but what she wanted was against the Rules, & the obligation she had as an incarnate. It seems to me that Finwe effectively backed the Valar into a corner & demanded a decision one way or another. The Valar's decision may not strike us as either fair or politically correct, but it is certainly according to the Rules which bound them as well as the Elves. Its also pretty clear that Feanor was just as offended as most of us, & probably played major part in his anger against the Valar. He too felt the decision was wrong. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."