LotR3-RotK-Seq19 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elladan and Elrohir · 01-04-2007, 05:26 PM

Hey, what do you know! It's Gandalf the Black again! This guy hasn't been around in a while. I believe his first appearance came in FOTR, when he shot down Gimli's idea about going through Moria. Well, here he is again. This time, he attempts to shoot down 'Gorn's idea to march on the Black Gate. And once again, whose idea was that in the book? Elementary, my dear G.

I actually kind of like this change as it shows Aragorn's independence from Gandalf. Especially since we don't have G counseling 'Gorn not to use the palantir.

And there's good ol' Leggy, delivering the line that made him Captain Obvious: "A diversion."

And does it strike anyone as odd that Gandalf mentions 10,000 orcs now standing between Frodo and Mount Doom? That's as many as Saruman sent to Helm's Deep, but despite the conflicting reports of the filmmakers, we know that somewhere between 100,000 and 600,000 orcs came to Pelennor Fields. So doesn't 10,000 seem a bit low?

I too really would have loved to see Sam (and then Sam and Frodo) facing off against the Two Watchers. They look so cool, and you can tell from the way the shots are cut that there is some sort of encounter in there that didn't make it to even the extended version. We know from PJ and Co. that that sequence was filmed; maybe we'll see it in the Super Duper Deluxe Deluxe Ultra-High Def Mother of All Lord of the Rings Extra Extended Limited Edition.

The part where Sam is tempted by the Ring is awesome, perfectly acted by Sean Astin. Tolkien's description in the book of Sam's temptation, brilliantly achieved in a different setting, would look ridiculous on film; what they have is great.

alatar · 01-04-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

Hey, what do you know! It's Gandalf the Black again! This guy hasn't been around in a while. I believe his first appearance came in FOTR, when he shot down Gimli's idea about going through Moria. Well, here he is again. This time, he attempts to shoot down 'Gorn's idea to march on the Black Gate. And once again, whose idea was that in the book? Elementary, my dear G.

Maia, in a pinch, tend to stick together. Gandalf in the movies is always watching out for his brethren...unless they shoot him with a fireball.

Quote:

I actually kind of like this change as it shows Aragorn's independence from Gandalf. Especially since we don't have G counseling 'Gorn not to use the palantir.

Yes, I know that for the audience we have to have Aragorn shine, and to do so, we have to dim all other lights. Still, it just kills me to see Gandalf so opposite his book-self.

Quote:

And there's good ol' Leggy, delivering the line that made him Captain Obvious: "A diversion."

He's got one note to play in RotK. At least he's not Eomer.

Quote:

And does it strike anyone as odd that Gandalf mentions 10,000 orcs now standing between Frodo and Mount Doom? That's as many as Saruman sent to Helm's Deep, but despite the conflicting reports of the filmmakers, we know that somewhere between 100,000 and 600,000 orcs came to Pelennor Fields. So doesn't 10,000 seem a bit low?

Glad that you mentioned it. The Battle of Minas Tirith surely decimated Sauron's forces, but you'd think that he'd be able to scratch up more than 10,000. Maybe Gandalf was just thinking of the Morannon Guard. In the next sequence we'll see more than a few orcs moving north to meet the coming threat. On the other hand, the way PJ played it, no forces came to reinforce Minas Tirith nor to replenish the numbers that were cut down. And so, for PJ, maybe Aragorn is attacking Sauron with 1000 or less. ???

Thanks for posting.

Essex · 01-06-2007, 05:59 AM

One of my faviourite bits of the book (and radio adaptation) is not shown here, but I was 90% sure it wouldn't be. When Sam can't find Frodo and sits down, almost in despair, and starts to sing 'In Western Lands beneath the Sun'. It always leaves a tear in my eye when I read (or here on CD) Sam singing this song.

I realise movie wise, in the midst of the all the fighting and us moving closer to the Climax of the movie we can't really stop for a song.

I love our 'Elivish Warrior' dispatching a few orcs with a splenndid nod to his old man and the Shire. The shot of his shadow standing there and frightening the orcs looks just like I imagined it from the books.

For the 'search light' as we have argued before, Alatar, show me a better way of showing Sauron scouring his lands for spies. I can't think of ANY other way so it works ok for me. Tolkien has the advantage of telling us what Sauron is doing. Without a narrator, Jackson does not have this ability.

I do get annoyed (gasp) by different characters taking on different roles. For example the reversal of Gandalf's role in the Debate (as mentioned above) - Stop giving all the credence to Aragorn. He's done a good enough job already!

But I don't mind Merry riding out with the Men of the West, only because of the splendid shot of Pippin and Merry charging a few seconds before the rest of the troops in a few scenes time.

I was dissapointed we didn't see more of the Houses of Healing, and Aragorn calling back Faramir, Eoywn and Merry. And we also miss one of my favourite lines when Eoywn tells Eomer to make Merry a knight of the Riddermark!

Everything seems to bring tears to my eyes when I get to this section of the book and further onwards. But the film does not do this for me. (Although it does partially make up for it in a later scene when I balled my eyes out like a baby when I first saw it at the Cinema!)

Elfchick7 · 04-06-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

And there's good ol' Leggy, delivering the line that made him Captain Obvious: "A diversion."

OH MY GOODNESS!!!! I couldn't believe that line made it into the movies. I recall yelling "DUH!" from my seat in the theatre.

What really makes me laugh is that I have friend - Orly fans, of course - who try to convince me that he wasn't suddenly getting it he was explaining it for Gimli's benefit. (hehe as if that makes it better anyway)

So much for the "wise" prince of Mirkwood.

alatar · 04-07-2007, 06:25 AM

One wonders why we needed the 'cute guy' to state the obvious - was this to keep the audience members, who were dragged there by their boyfriends, 'in' the movie?

"Oh, then it's to be a distraction then. Huh. Good thing that that blonde-haired guy's there to keep me up to date...is this movie over yet?"

01-04-2007, 05:26 PM	#1
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Hey, what do you know! It's Gandalf the Black again! This guy hasn't been around in a while. I believe his first appearance came in FOTR, when he shot down Gimli's idea about going through Moria. Well, here he is again. This time, he attempts to shoot down 'Gorn's idea to march on the Black Gate. And once again, whose idea was that in the book? Elementary, my dear G. I actually kind of like this change as it shows Aragorn's independence from Gandalf. Especially since we don't have G counseling 'Gorn not to use the palantir. And there's good ol' Leggy, delivering the line that made him Captain Obvious: "A diversion." And does it strike anyone as odd that Gandalf mentions 10,000 orcs now standing between Frodo and Mount Doom? That's as many as Saruman sent to Helm's Deep, but despite the conflicting reports of the filmmakers, we know that somewhere between 100,000 and 600,000 orcs came to Pelennor Fields. So doesn't 10,000 seem a bit low? I too really would have loved to see Sam (and then Sam and Frodo) facing off against the Two Watchers. They look so cool, and you can tell from the way the shots are cut that there is some sort of encounter in there that didn't make it to even the extended version. We know from PJ and Co. that that sequence was filmed; maybe we'll see it in the Super Duper Deluxe Deluxe Ultra-High Def Mother of All Lord of the Rings Extra Extended Limited Edition. The part where Sam is tempted by the Ring is awesome, perfectly acted by Sean Astin. Tolkien's description in the book of Sam's temptation, brilliantly achieved in a different setting, would look ridiculous on film; what they have is great. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

04-07-2007, 06:25 AM	#5
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	One wonders why we needed the 'cute guy' to state the obvious - was this to keep the audience members, who were dragged there by their boyfriends, 'in' the movie? "Oh, then it's to be a distraction then. Huh. Good thing that that blonde-haired guy's there to keep me up to date...is this movie over yet?" __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

01-06-2007, 05:59 AM	#3
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	One of my faviourite bits of the book (and radio adaptation) is not shown here, but I was 90% sure it wouldn't be. When Sam can't find Frodo and sits down, almost in despair, and starts to sing 'In Western Lands beneath the Sun'. It always leaves a tear in my eye when I read (or here on CD) Sam singing this song. I realise movie wise, in the midst of the all the fighting and us moving closer to the Climax of the movie we can't really stop for a song. I love our 'Elivish Warrior' dispatching a few orcs with a splenndid nod to his old man and the Shire. The shot of his shadow standing there and frightening the orcs looks just like I imagined it from the books. For the 'search light' as we have argued before, Alatar, show me a better way of showing Sauron scouring his lands for spies. I can't think of ANY other way so it works ok for me. Tolkien has the advantage of telling us what Sauron is doing. Without a narrator, Jackson does not have this ability. I do get annoyed (gasp) by different characters taking on different roles. For example the reversal of Gandalf's role in the Debate (as mentioned above) - Stop giving all the credence to Aragorn. He's done a good enough job already! But I don't mind Merry riding out with the Men of the West, only because of the splendid shot of Pippin and Merry charging a few seconds before the rest of the troops in a few scenes time. I was dissapointed we didn't see more of the Houses of Healing, and Aragorn calling back Faramir, Eoywn and Merry. And we also miss one of my favourite lines when Eoywn tells Eomer to make Merry a knight of the Riddermark! Everything seems to bring tears to my eyes when I get to this section of the book and further onwards. But the film does not do this for me. (Although it does partially make up for it in a later scene when I balled my eyes out like a baby when I first saw it at the Cinema!)