I Found the Entwives! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ardamir the Blessed · 01-02-2007, 08:26 PM

It was just a suggestion, I remembered that Sam climbs a tree in "Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit" and realized that it could be inconsistent with other passages. I did not think it was very likely that the phantom was referring to this either (that was why I wrote "I do not suppose that ..."), but I thought it best to post it.

The latest version of my Entwives essay can be found at Tolkien Gateway here. I am going to move my Tolkien homepage in its entirety there as well.

the phantom · 01-02-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boro

Am I warm?

Heh heh.... a bit tepid, perhaps. Not warm.

As I said before, I do not claim to have spotted the Entwives. I only claim to have found something that meshes with what I've read from that Teleporno chap. And no, I haven't read everything he's written. I'm a busy guy.

As far as the "inconsistency" that I've found that could possibly hint that there is something more than meets the eye going on... it's something absolutely stupid that most would explain away by saying "It's magic, phantom!" or something similar.

Let's see if that helps you. Something "magical" happens in the second half of TTT- something that, if you refuse to believe in the magic of the situation, could be used as further evidence of Entwives in that location. And I say "further" because there is already some amount of evidence in Tolkien's wording. Though naturally evidence can be found where none exists if you are looking hard enough.

And the joke angle mentioned earlier- I did not confirm it without first assuming that one existed in the first place. After making that assumption I was then able to concede that it was possible that a joke was present in the passage. I did not attempt to discover what precisely the joke was, though I have some idea. I'm not really concerned with it. In my mind it is the most subjective evidence we have, and so I'm ignoring it as we can neither prove nor refute it. Twas the wording and magical event that jumped out at me when I read the passage.

(I was not looking for the Entwives when I read it.)

CSteefel · 01-03-2007, 12:51 AM

I suppose the Phantom is referring to the place where the Elvish rope comes untied on its own once Sam and Frodo have descended the cliff. They tied the rope on to the same stump mentioned before as part of the trees found in the gully or cleft in which they were descending the eastern face of the Ewyn Muil.

I had always assumed this was "magic" associated with the rope, but the Phantom points to the fact that when the ropes are used in Lothlorien to cross the river, they had to be untied by the Elves. I suppose this is the inconsistency that Phantom is referring to.

Seems a bit of a stretch to conclude that an Entwife helped the hobbits along by untying it. In addition, from everything we know about the Entiwives, they hung out on the plains, tending gardens rather than groves of trees. I suppose this could have been a group that fled Sauron's armies, but the evidence is mightly slim here...

Boromir88 · 01-03-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Heh heh.... a bit tepid, perhaps. Not warm.

Hey if the phantom calls me lukewarm, I'll take that.

Though you know I don't do wild easter egg hunts, I can't commentate, and argue with you about how wrong you are until you reveal what you found.

the phantom · 01-03-2007, 10:25 AM

CS- Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boro

I can't commentate, and argue with you about how wrong you are until you reveal what you found.

Ah, but be warned, as this is a crackpot theory with no absolute proof whatsoever, I am likely to argue very passionately for it. Don't start the argument unless you are prepared to go the distance, Boro, for I intend to take this to absurd lengths.

Alcuin · 01-03-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

Ah, but be warned, as this is a crackpot theory with no absolute proof whatsoever, I am likely to argue very passionately for it. Don't start the argument unless you are prepared to go the distance, Boro, for I intend to take this to absurd lengths.

Well, that leaves me to ask the Irishman’s question upon entering a pub and encountering two men brawling at the bar: “Is this a private fight, or can anybody join in?”

Boromir88 · 01-03-2007, 11:16 AM

I expect nothing less from you tp

. I will make a prediction though of how this will go. See, you'll reveal what you've found, after there are a few rebuttals back and forth it will end with me spieling on about 'reader applicability,' and it all depends upon whether the reader sees it that way or not. Aye, that's how it will end.

Alcuin, the more the merrier...perhaps tp's just building up my anticipation to crush it in a few minutes, but I want to get this matter down and done with.

01-03-2007, 12:51 AM	#3
CSteefel Wight Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 204	I suppose the Phantom is referring to the place where the Elvish rope comes untied on its own once Sam and Frodo have descended the cliff. They tied the rope on to the same stump mentioned before as part of the trees found in the gully or cleft in which they were descending the eastern face of the Ewyn Muil. I had always assumed this was "magic" associated with the rope, but the Phantom points to the fact that when the ropes are used in Lothlorien to cross the river, they had to be untied by the Elves. I suppose this is the inconsistency that Phantom is referring to. Seems a bit of a stretch to conclude that an Entwife helped the hobbits along by untying it. In addition, from everything we know about the Entiwives, they hung out on the plains, tending gardens rather than groves of trees. I suppose this could have been a group that fled Sauron's armies, but the evidence is mightly slim here... __________________ `These are indeed strange days,' he muttered. `Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass.'

01-03-2007, 11:16 AM	#7
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I expect nothing less from you tp . I will make a prediction though of how this will go. See, you'll reveal what you've found, after there are a few rebuttals back and forth it will end with me spieling on about 'reader applicability,' and it all depends upon whether the reader sees it that way or not. Aye, that's how it will end. Alcuin, the more the merrier...perhaps tp's just building up my anticipation to crush it in a few minutes, but I want to get this matter down and done with. __________________ Fenris Penguin

01-02-2007, 08:26 PM	#1
Ardamir the Blessed Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 37	It was just a suggestion, I remembered that Sam climbs a tree in "Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit" and realized that it could be inconsistent with other passages. I did not think it was very likely that the phantom was referring to this either (that was why I wrote "I do not suppose that ..."), but I thought it best to post it. The latest version of my Entwives essay can be found at Tolkien Gateway here. I am going to move my Tolkien homepage in its entirety there as well.