Was it legit?

[Boromir_bg]

or whether he was able to get the throne of Gondor because of the political vaccuum and the struggle Gondor was in.

Mostly because of that I think.And because they saw a great leader in him.

[Alcuin]

So far, no has discussed Salic Law and agnatic succession in this thread, but surely Salic Law was something of interest to Tolkien? Its sixth century roots put it square in the middle of Tolkien’s investigations into the literature of the period. There is, in addition to this, a series of wars based upon differing interpretations of the Salic Law as regards female inheritance of land and hence of kingdoms: the Carlist Wars in nineteenth century Spain; the War of the Austrian Succession in the mid-eighteenth century, which influenced the French Revolution (Maria Theresa, who cemented her succession of her father Charles VI upon the conclusion of the war, was the mother of the hapless Marie Antoinette); and most famously, the Hundred Years War.

The case put forward by Arvedui in the case of Arnor and Gondor in regards to the deaths of Ondoher and his sons while his daughter survived is similar in many ways to the claims of Edward III through his mother, Isabella wife of Edward II, daughter and only surviving child of Philip IV, against his first cousin once removed, Philip VI of Valois.

The outcome of the real-life situation in the Hundred Years War was very different from that in Tolkien’s story; but is anyone aware of any connection between the two? Does anyone know if Tolkien ever commented or wrote on the Salic Law in his philological studies?

It does not seem that the Elves were concerned about agnatic succession: cf. Idril Celebrindal, seen as the heir of her father Turgon; and Dior Eluchíl, who inherited the throne of Doriath from Thingol through his mother, Lúthien. It is noteworthy that the English followed a similar rule in their regal inheritance: sc. Henry II, who inherited through his mother Matilda; but I believe the Saxon kings (at least in the House of Wessex) did follow some version of agnatic succession, since the crown passed only to male heirs. Wasn’t Ethelfleda the Lady of Mercia daughter of Alfred the Great older than her brother Edward the Elder, who succeeded their father as king? Upon her death, her daughter Ælfwinn (cf. the name Elfwine, son of Éomer – I believe Ælfwinn is a feminine form, making it the feminine form of the Sindarin Elendil, “friend/lover of Elves”) was dispossessed of Mercia, her inheritance from her father Æthelred Lord of Mercia. Tolkien had an abiding interest in Mercia, and considered himself of Mercian ancestry. (See Letter 95 to his son Christopher.)

In addition, Edward the Elder first married a woman whom the English nobility considered of such low birth that her name was not even recorded until after the Conquest: Ecgwynn. (To me, that is redolent of Tolkien’s story of Valacar and his marriage to Vidumavi of Rhovanion: the accession of their son Eldacar was odious to some of the royal house of Gondor.) Under their son, however, the House of Wessex reached its apex: Athelstan the Glorious, who was made King of Mercia when his father divided the kingdom upon his death back into Mercia and Wessex. Athelstan once again reunited England after his half-brother Ælfweard of Wessex died, and became a great king, as his epithet implies: probably the zenith of Anglo-Saxon England.

Does anyone else see bits and pieces of Anglo-Saxon history imported by Tolkien into the stories of the kings of Gondor and Arnor? Any ideas on the Salic Law and the succession of the Lordship of the First and Third Houses of the Edain (in both of which similar agnatic succession was practiced; unlike the Second House, which not only did not practice agnatic succession but took its sobriquet – “The House of Haleth” – from its most famous female leader). What about Silmariën, daughter and eldest child of Tar-Elendil, through whom Elendil the Tall traced his royal descent to Elros Tar-Minyatur; and the subsequent change in the law of succession by Tar-Aldarion in favor of his daughter and only child, Ancalimë? The usurpations of Herucalmo Tar-Anducal and Ar-Pharazôn?

Or is all this too far off-topic?

I believe that because Isildur did not make it to take up high kingship, and it says he forsook Gondor, those descended from him only can't really claim Gondor's throne. Arvedui may not have had legal grounds to become King of Gondor, but Firiel and his son Aranarth certainly did. It is true that the law of female succession observed in Numenor was not observed in Gondor, but the reason it was not observed was because it never had to be. Rejecting Firiel because there hasn't been a need for a female to take the throne yet is basically ridiculous. Also, ignoring a law that was in place when Numenor was still around and Elendil was High King was pretty ignorant of them.

No one has mentioned this, but Firiel is directly descended from Anarion, making Aranarth a direct descendant of both Isildur and Anarion, which would re-unite the kingdoms. What makes Aragorn different from Arvedui is that Aragorn is descended from Aranarth, who, as mentioned, is of both lines, so if you really want to get technical, Aragorn *is* Anarion's & Isildur's heir and therefore rightfully ruler of both Gondor and Arnor, the High King. He may have been more acceptable to the people because of circumstances, but he was not just thrown up on the throne because they had no one better.