A Christmas Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 12-26-2006, 05:19 AM

Raynor has saved me some time there as I would have put those same quotes on! It does seem that Tolkien did not intend the dates to mean anything deeper, and he was greatly concerned with dates, moon cycles and so on being 'correct' in his work, so this was the most likely reason that he altered dates of events. His point about not wanting all the action to take place in winter is a solid and simple reason - had he allowed this to happen it would simply have restricted his choices for the story! And there is something poetic about moving from winter to spring as they move east and south and we learn more about Middle-earth on the journey. But obviously when he realised the other significance of the dates (in as far as they translate from the Shire calendar to ours) he was probably quite pleased!

Raynor · 12-26-2006, 07:22 AM

Then again, we should consider that the Nomenclature was intended by the author to be an official guide, while Resnik' account is second hand. From what I figured, both versions appear not long apart from each other, which further puts the article under question mark - if it was the same year, I doubt Tolkien's memory or view on matters would alter in months. In terms of official weight, the Nomenclature should be second only to LotR (if not equal).

Frodo Baggins · 12-26-2006, 07:41 PM

Merry Christmas, Everyone!

In line with Lalwende, also keep in mind the symbolism of moving from winter to spring. When they Fellowship left in the dead of the year (i.e. near the solstice) Middle-earth itself was in great danger and near annihilation by the plans of Sauron as well as Saruman. In the Spring, when the ring is destroyed, it is a rebirth in a way. The new beginnings of Spring go along with a new beginning in the Fourth Age, a time now free from Sauron.

Just my thoughts.

And Tolkien may just have randomly picked December 25 because it gave the Fellowship more time to prepare and the scouts to return. Since Yule was not an observance of the Elves, to them it was just another day. Although I have to admit it is their loss. Life without Christmas is just not a fun idea.

12-26-2006, 05:19 AM	#1
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Raynor has saved me some time there as I would have put those same quotes on! It does seem that Tolkien did not intend the dates to mean anything deeper, and he was greatly concerned with dates, moon cycles and so on being 'correct' in his work, so this was the most likely reason that he altered dates of events. His point about not wanting all the action to take place in winter is a solid and simple reason - had he allowed this to happen it would simply have restricted his choices for the story! And there is something poetic about moving from winter to spring as they move east and south and we learn more about Middle-earth on the journey. But obviously when he realised the other significance of the dates (in as far as they translate from the Shire calendar to ours) he was probably quite pleased! __________________ Gordon's alive!

12-26-2006, 07:22 AM	#2
Raynor Eagle of the Star Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sarmisegethuza Posts: 1,058	Then again, we should consider that the Nomenclature was intended by the author to be an official guide, while Resnik' account is second hand. From what I figured, both versions appear not long apart from each other, which further puts the article under question mark - if it was the same year, I doubt Tolkien's memory or view on matters would alter in months. In terms of official weight, the Nomenclature should be second only to LotR (if not equal). __________________ "May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free."

12-26-2006, 07:41 PM	#3
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Merry Christmas, Everyone! In line with Lalwende, also keep in mind the symbolism of moving from winter to spring. When they Fellowship left in the dead of the year (i.e. near the solstice) Middle-earth itself was in great danger and near annihilation by the plans of Sauron as well as Saruman. In the Spring, when the ring is destroyed, it is a rebirth in a way. The new beginnings of Spring go along with a new beginning in the Fourth Age, a time now free from Sauron. Just my thoughts. And Tolkien may just have randomly picked December 25 because it gave the Fellowship more time to prepare and the scouts to return. Since Yule was not an observance of the Elves, to them it was just another day. Although I have to admit it is their loss. Life without Christmas is just not a fun idea. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."