Where is Breredon please ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mänwe · 12-06-2006, 06:08 PM

Legate, I am sorry for not understanding your question, and presenting you with a rather childish response!

To answer your actual then, no, she did not make it up. And there is no reference to it in the trilogy. However knowing your question I flew to my copy of 'History of Middle Earth vol i' or 'The Return of the Shadow'.

And found the following quote amongst Christophers explanation of the error in the distance given by Merry that the Nazgûl would have to travel to cross the Brandywine.

"The main road within Buckland is described (on a rejected page only) as running 'from the Bridge to Standelf and Haysend.' Standelf is never mentioned in the text of LR, though marked on my father's map of the Shire and on both of mine; on all three the road stops there and does not continue to Haysend, which is not shown as a village or any sort of habitation.(5)" - (HoME 6, The Return of the Shadow)

And Aiwendil is spot on with her translation of the name, for in the note '(5)' is the following;

"5. Standelf means 'stone-quarry' (Old English stan-(ge)delf, surviving in the place-name Stonydelph in Warwickshire)." - (HoME 6, The Return of the Shadow)

Legate of Amon Lanc · 12-07-2006, 06:50 AM

Thanks to you all for help... and no offense taken, Mänwe, this just happens

I have one last addition to it. I really don't have Standelf in my version of LotR. One thing I have to point out is, however, that it is not original LotR, but translation to my language (Czech). Nevertheless, I think the translation is quite good - the translator really did a good job and mostly she cared about the smallest details. But since you mentioned that the name "Standelf" is not well seen even on the original map, I find it very likely that Standelf (if it were in the original LotR always) was accidentaly missed by the translator and didn't made it to the map (which is original, just with Czech names).
And one thing, why I always thought Standelf having something to do with "elf" is because the one who translated Fonstad's Atlas named it, in Czech, Elfín (you can see the word "elf" in there, I bet, you would translate it back something like "Elfville" or something like that). I find it likely that the translator didn't bother, or even did not think about Old English roots of this word, just saw "elf" in the word and considered it to mean, well, Elf

So thanks for getting this myth away from me.
It would be harder, however, to get this myth away from many other people, who see just "Elfín" on the map and do not try to look further... guess it's up to me then

Once again a Silmaril to you all for helping to solve this out!

12-06-2006, 06:08 PM	#1
Mänwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: May as well be the Arctic Circle Posts: 283	An apology... Legate, I am sorry for not understanding your question, and presenting you with a rather childish response! To answer your actual then, no, she did not make it up. And there is no reference to it in the trilogy. However knowing your question I flew to my copy of 'History of Middle Earth vol i' or 'The Return of the Shadow'. And found the following quote amongst Christophers explanation of the error in the distance given by Merry that the Nazgûl would have to travel to cross the Brandywine. "The main road within Buckland is described (on a rejected page only) as running 'from the Bridge to Standelf and Haysend.' Standelf is never mentioned in the text of LR, though marked on my father's map of the Shire and on both of mine; on all three the road stops there and does not continue to Haysend, which is not shown as a village or any sort of habitation.(5)" - (HoME 6, The Return of the Shadow) And Aiwendil is spot on with her translation of the name, for in the note '(5)' is the following; "5. Standelf means 'stone-quarry' (Old English stan-(ge)delf, surviving in the place-name Stonydelph in Warwickshire)." - (HoME 6, The Return of the Shadow) __________________ "I am, I fear, a most unsatisfactory person." - (Letter #124 To Sir Stanley Unwin)

12-07-2006, 06:50 AM	#2
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Thanks very much! Thanks to you all for help... and no offense taken, Mänwe, this just happens I have one last addition to it. I really don't have Standelf in my version of LotR. One thing I have to point out is, however, that it is not original LotR, but translation to my language (Czech). Nevertheless, I think the translation is quite good - the translator really did a good job and mostly she cared about the smallest details. But since you mentioned that the name "Standelf" is not well seen even on the original map, I find it very likely that Standelf (if it were in the original LotR always) was accidentaly missed by the translator and didn't made it to the map (which is original, just with Czech names). And one thing, why I always thought Standelf having something to do with "elf" is because the one who translated Fonstad's Atlas named it, in Czech, Elfín (you can see the word "elf" in there, I bet, you would translate it back something like "Elfville" or something like that). I find it likely that the translator didn't bother, or even did not think about Old English roots of this word, just saw "elf" in the word and considered it to mean, well, Elf So thanks for getting this myth away from me. It would be harder, however, to get this myth away from many other people, who see just "Elfín" on the map and do not try to look further... guess it's up to me then Once again a Silmaril to you all for helping to solve this out! __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories