Most Tragic Moment?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Treebeard still had hope that the Entviewes would be found, surely it does not look like it, but the hope remains.

The Elves are leaving yes, but that is not devistating at all. Beautiful things will disapear, but only from middle-earth. It was not like men had much interfearing with elves anyway.

Hehe the very fact that Gandalf is leaving signals hope! He was only around when there was very little hope, him leaving is a sign of better days to come.

This being said I must admit that all of these things makes me sad, but that is not the same as it takes away hope.

(only the hope of Legolas and Gandalf running an entling-kindergarden is no more)

[Bêthberry]

The Shire was successfully defended. The party tree grew back. Merry and Pippin had progeny. Sam and Rosie had a baker's dozen--lots more than Aragorn and Arwen, who must have been busy with ruling etc. The Shire expanded its territory. Eowyn and Faramir redeveloped Ithilien. Dale recovered well.

Does change always mean a defeat of hope? I don't think so.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Does change always mean a defeat of hope? I don't think so.

If you ask Nietzsche, Tolstoy, Jünger, Heidegger... yes it does. But if you ask the enlightenment philosophers, Marx, J.S. Mill, the socialist movement, the technocrats... no it doesn't. Change is for the better or worse.

But as a true romantic, J.R.R. did not love change?

[Aaron]

I am the same, I think the tragedy is that you grow so attached to the characters and they mean so much to you as a reader that in a sense you yearn for further perils so that they can continue as they did in the past. But all things eventually change.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But as a true romantic, J.R.R. did not love change?

But was J.R. "a true romantic"? Oh, my, we have another word to define!

Originally Posted by Aaron

I think the tragedy is that you grow so attached to the characters and they mean so much to you as a reader that in a sense you yearn for further perils so that they can continue as they did in the past.

Ghoulish, isn't it, how much enjoyment some have in wanting to see others struggle even more.

Originally Posted by The Snide One

You could give up on breakfast altogether, and sit on your duff despondently in the kitchen, or simply microwave some waffles.

Tragic, en't it, how the standards of cookery have declined with that wretched microwave.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Tragic, en't it, how the standards of cookery have declined with that wretched microwave.

Tragedy is not being able to leave the Shire, to leave that which is comfortable and familiar for that which is unknown. Maybe Eru permitted Sauron in order to kick the Elves out of their kitchen (stocked mainly with regrets, formaldehyde and songs about how things used to be) and onto either the East or West Road.

If only Biblo hadn't left his door.

[Thinlómien]

Does change always mean a defeat of hope? I don't think so.

No, it doesn't. Or yes, it does defeat some hope, but not all hope. Change can be good, bad or neutral, but it always leaves the heart longing for something. I guess that human is such a languor-minded species that when happy, s/he finds some, however little, good things s/he misses in the previous horrible state, though s/he does not miss the horrible thing per se.

(Am I making any sense ?)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

(Am I making any sense?)

A lot, I think.

In totally desperate situations people are able to tend even a tiniest spark of hope and in the moments of luxury and ease they are able to long for harder times.

But yes. I see a lot of hope there in the end of the LotR. It will be different, but not just bad or terrible. And in our "good ages" we may then long for the past strifes and troubles with their honour and beauty. Like good romantics do. (Touché, Bêthberry - we really should define that word, but maybe next time? )

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Does change always mean a defeat of hope? I don't think so.

No matter how much you scrape, you eventually run out of butter for your toast. You could give up on breakfast altogether, and sit on your duff despondently in the kitchen, or simply microwave some waffles.