oldest person in middle earth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bêthberry · 11-30-2006, 12:52 PM

Just as Yavanna and Manwe had a special relationship separate from Yavanna's relationship with Aule, perhaps Mrs. Cirdan and Celeborn had one also, which would explain her absence from The Grey Havens at the fateful time of the famous departure. I don't think there's any question, though, that a Mrs. Cirdan sported a beard.

Frankly, I sometimes wonder if those blue wizards who went east weren't clothed in female robes. Another reason why their story is untold.

Boromir88 · 11-30-2006, 01:33 PM

Oi, but Bethberry, the Blue Wizards story is told a bit more extensively and Tolkien seems to believe they had played a bit importance in limitting the numbers of Sauron's armies. I think we have more on the Blue Wizards than we do on Radagast. So if any wizard dressed in female clothes, it would be him.

Bêthberry · 11-30-2006, 02:51 PM

Oh but Boromir, it isn't surprising that a man of Tolkien's tastes and values would be so circumspect and discrete about what likely were his Mata Hari characters.

Mithalwen · 11-30-2006, 03:16 PM

Ah but you are forgetting the discarded draft involving the sixth wizard Khaminmirrandir who was more exotically garbed.....

The Might · 12-18-2006, 02:19 PM

I personally believe the oldest Elf is Ingwe, King of all Elves, that still dwells in Aman
It is not clear if he is still alive at the end of the Third Age, but neither is his death mentioned, and it is very possible that he is the eldest.
he is known to have awoken at Cuivienen
Ingwe has the most chances to be considered the eldest, as his name means "the first one".
on the other hand, this name could also have this meaning in reference to his exalted position as High King of all the Elves.

Raynor · 12-18-2006, 02:34 PM

In an early variant of the story, Ingwe is indeed given the title of the first elf:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Of the valian tongues and its descendants, HoME V

On the march to the West the Lindar went first, and the chief house among them was the house of Ingwe, high-king of the Eldalie, and the oldest of all Elves, for he first awoke.

...although later the name of the first elf is given as Imin - in the legend of the awakening of the elves, Quendi and Eldar, HoME XI.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 12-19-2006, 05:49 AM

Well the thing is, are we telling the oldest person in Middle-Earth (meaning: not Aman) or oldest person in Middle-Earth (actually meaning Eä, or the world of Tolkien as such)?

As for the first, I stand for Tom. Maybe even for the second (if you don't consider Maiar persons. And, of course, if you don't consider old TB being Maia

Do Balrogs have wings?)

11-30-2006, 12:52 PM	#1
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Just as Yavanna and Manwe had a special relationship separate from Yavanna's relationship with Aule, perhaps Mrs. Cirdan and Celeborn had one also, which would explain her absence from The Grey Havens at the fateful time of the famous departure. I don't think there's any question, though, that a Mrs. Cirdan sported a beard. Frankly, I sometimes wonder if those blue wizards who went east weren't clothed in female robes. Another reason why their story is untold. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

11-30-2006, 01:33 PM	#2
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Oi, but Bethberry, the Blue Wizards story is told a bit more extensively and Tolkien seems to believe they had played a bit importance in limitting the numbers of Sauron's armies. I think we have more on the Blue Wizards than we do on Radagast. So if any wizard dressed in female clothes, it would be him. __________________ Fenris Penguin

11-30-2006, 02:51 PM	#3
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Oh but Boromir, it isn't surprising that a man of Tolkien's tastes and values would be so circumspect and discrete about what likely were his Mata Hari characters. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

11-30-2006, 03:16 PM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Ah but you are forgetting the discarded draft involving the sixth wizard Khaminmirrandir who was more exotically garbed..... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

12-18-2006, 02:19 PM	#5
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	I personally believe the oldest Elf is Ingwe, King of all Elves, that still dwells in Aman It is not clear if he is still alive at the end of the Third Age, but neither is his death mentioned, and it is very possible that he is the eldest. he is known to have awoken at Cuivienen Ingwe has the most chances to be considered the eldest, as his name means "the first one". on the other hand, this name could also have this meaning in reference to his exalted position as High King of all the Elves. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-19-2006, 05:49 AM	#7
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well the thing is, are we telling the oldest person in Middle-Earth (meaning: not Aman) or oldest person in Middle-Earth (actually meaning Eä, or the world of Tolkien as such)? As for the first, I stand for Tom. Maybe even for the second (if you don't consider Maiar persons. And, of course, if you don't consider old TB being Maia Do Balrogs have wings?) __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories