LotR1-FotR-Seq13 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

doug*platypus · 11-28-2006, 03:24 AM

I too missed the appearance of the orcs and the Nazgûl on the east bank of the river, especially Legolas' magnificent shot in the dark. But Sir Kohran makes a convincing case for not having the Nazgûl with its new mount so soon. In the movie, we don't really get the sense that the Fellowship spends weeks and weeks in Lórien, or considerable amounts of time heading south on either side of the Misty Mountains. Indeed, it was only an hour or so ago that the Nazgûl were seemingly defeated, and it may not have fit to have them back so soon.

I agree that the scenery on the boat trip south was pretty awesome. Although, I did have to admit thinking that they were in the South Island of New Zealand, rather than Middle Earth! But that's to be expected, I suppose. I didn't like the fact that Legolas looks left when his elfy-sense is tingling, rather than right (he looks west rather than east, towards Isengard). Just one of those annoying bugbears which most audience members feel at some tiny errors they notice in movies.

It's been a long time since I saw the EE; I only have a bootleg copy (the shame! the guilt!) of the theatrical version. So I can't really comment on the argument (for want of a better word) between Boromir and Aragorn. The reference to Gollum was important, though, since we need to know how exactly he catches up with Frodo and Samwise in the next instalment.

Boromir's attempt to wrest the Ring from Frodo was well done, except when he appears to slip over on nothing. I would have liked to see more made of Frodo's struggle on Amon Hen, but I guess that Gandalf's voice would have seemed a bit out of place, and elicited comparisons with "use the Force, Luke!" from the recently departed Obi-Wan in A New Hope. I liked the fact that Frodo could see the Eye of Sauron when he wore the Ring on the high seat. But if events at Bree were anything to go by, shouldn't he always see the Eye (and it see him) whenever he puts the Ring on? Here we have one of those famous inconsistencies which appear when PJ alters the original events.

I have to say that I didn't like Aragorn letting Frodo go at all! It seems cruel to wilfully abandon him and expect him to continue on to Mordor alone. I would have preferred it if Frodo had simply given him the slip, as in the book.

I also thought that Aragorn solo versus 100 uruks was a little unrealistic. And why didn't Lurtz just shoot him? Come to think of it, why didn't more of them have bows? Well, I guess they did spread out after Lurtz gave the order... plus Aragorn withdrew a little to where they could only come at him one at a time. So I suppose his outnumbering wasn't too bad.

That Lurtz was one evil dude, shooting Boromir like that. Makes you kind of glad when Aragorn separates his head from his shoulders. Not that violence is good, mind...

Although he was not in the book, I appreciate that PJ wanted a minor baddie leader that he could kill off. I wonder, though, what it would have been like if Uglúk had been the one to shoot Boromir, then run off, to be killed by Éomer in the next movie? Then we would have been doubly glad to see him get done in, because he had survived so long and tormented Merry and Pippin.

Boromir's death scene was touching, if perhaps a little drawn out. But great acting, great make-up, great lighting. Just great. And did I mention great? PJs decision to move The Departure of Boromir to the first film was one of his best alterations to the book. If I had been the director, I probably would have stuck to the book, and the first movie would have ended with a fizzle, and without any clear idea of where the characters were and where they were going (with the exception of Sam and Frodo).

Frodo's indecision and hesitation at the boats gave us yet more shots of the Ring in his hand, which I felt we didn't really need. It kind of slowed down the action and ruined the climax a little. Sam came up with an endearing piece of humour when he arrived to rain on Frodo's parade:

Quote:

"I'm going to Mordor alone!"

"Of course you are; and I'm coming with you!"

For some reason, I just love the shot of Frodo's hand reaching down to rescue Sam from the water. And Sam's optimism when Frodo despairs of seeing the others again is really touching. One of the few times when movie Sam really does it for me.

"Let's hunt some orc" really made me cringe the first twenty or so times I heard it, but I think I'm getting used to it now! It's not the worst addition to the dialogue.

Enya's May it Be is a simply perfect ending to the film. That song is so Middle Earth! I love the lyrics and Enya's voice. I like to believe that even Tolkien would have approved.

And so the pieces are set and the board is moving. On to the next movie!

sassyfriend · 09-06-2011, 11:57 AM

I loved the whole thing with Aragorn chopping off Lurtz's head I always cheer when that happens and I loved the whole Boromir dying scene not that I love that he dies mind you, but its a very heart wrenching scene and you really feel their friendship in that moment.

alatar · 09-06-2011, 12:06 PM

I agree, sassyfriend, that this scene is one of the greats, especially with Boromir's death (a great change from the Books). This is Aragorn's second beheading (Moria the first?), and I don't mind it as a way for dispatching Lurtz...it just gets old by RotK.

By the by, welcome, sassyfriend, to the Downs!

Bêthberry · 09-06-2011, 01:49 PM

I wouldn't exactly say that Aragorn and Boromir have a "friendship" at that moment. True Boromir has made amends, but the dark side of his desire for the Ring caused the Ring Bearer to run off and hide, and this is greatly troubling for Aragorn, as well as the loss of the other hobbits. It is a situation very difficult for the man who would be king.

alatar · 09-06-2011, 02:09 PM

Bb, I understand what sassyfriend is expressing about the Boromir/Aragorn scene, as it seems that the guys bond at that moment.

<by the by, nice seeing you here!>

sassyfriend · 09-06-2011, 04:19 PM

Hanna le, Thank you for the welcome. Not sure who or what the statue at Amon hen represents though.

Bêthberry · 09-06-2011, 06:19 PM

Well, alatar, if the two of you think that, I guess I'll just have to hunker down and take another look at that scene.

Boromir88 · 09-09-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I wouldn't exactly say that Aragorn and Boromir have a "friendship" at that moment. True Boromir has made amends, but the dark side of his desire for the Ring caused the Ring Bearer to run off and hide, and this is greatly troubling for Aragorn, as well as the loss of the other hobbits. It is a situation very difficult for the man who would be king.

Granted this is from the books, so probably isn't relevant, but I've always thought the movie portrayal of Boromir was much softer than the book character. Anyway, Aragorn doesn't even disclose to Gandalf the full story of Boromir's death.

Maybe Aragorn's honorable where he doesn't "mock the dead" as they say, but I always viewed the two as having a friendship...albeit an interesting and confrontational one at times. I believe Boromir even says sometime after Lothlorien he doesn't abandon his friends in need. So, clearly despite the personality clash, he regarded the Fellowship as all friends.

alatar · 09-09-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Maybe Aragorn's honorable where he doesn't "mock the dead" as they say, but I always viewed the two as having a friendship...albeit an interesting and confrontational one at times. I believe Boromir even says sometime after Lothlorien he doesn't abandon his friends in need. So, clearly despite the personality clash, he regarded the Fellowship as all friends.

Agreed. Brotherly - those of us blessed with brothers know that they are closer than friends will ever be, yet sometimes you consider killing them (metaphorically, of course).

Boromir88 · 09-10-2011, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

Agreed. Brotherly - those of us blessed with brothers know that they are closer than friends will ever be, yet sometimes you consider killing them (metaphorically, of course).

Ah, the love of brothers.

Denethor loves and favors Boromir for what he can do. This blinds his love as he believes Boromir would have brought him a mighty gift, that in turn would "save" Gondor. Faramir, on the other hand, loves Boromir for who he is, flaws and all. It's an honest love, a brotherly love.

Yes, I'd say where Aragorn stands is more similar to Faramir's honest love for his brother, than Denethor's blind love for his son.

09-06-2011, 12:06 PM	#3
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	I agree, sassyfriend, that this scene is one of the greats, especially with Boromir's death (a great change from the Books). This is Aragorn's second beheading (Moria the first?), and I don't mind it as a way for dispatching Lurtz...it just gets old by RotK. By the by, welcome, sassyfriend, to the Downs! __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

09-06-2011, 01:49 PM	#4
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	I wouldn't exactly say that Aragorn and Boromir have a "friendship" at that moment. True Boromir has made amends, but the dark side of his desire for the Ring caused the Ring Bearer to run off and hide, and this is greatly troubling for Aragorn, as well as the loss of the other hobbits. It is a situation very difficult for the man who would be king. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

09-06-2011, 02:09 PM	#5
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Bb, I understand what sassyfriend is expressing about the Boromir/Aragorn scene, as it seems that the guys bond at that moment. <by the by, nice seeing you here!> __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

09-06-2011, 06:19 PM	#7
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Well, alatar, if the two of you think that, I guess I'll just have to hunker down and take another look at that scene. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

09-06-2011, 11:57 AM	#2
sassyfriend Wight Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 165	I loved the whole thing with Aragorn chopping off Lurtz's head I always cheer when that happens and I loved the whole Boromir dying scene not that I love that he dies mind you, but its a very heart wrenching scene and you really feel their friendship in that moment.

09-06-2011, 04:19 PM	#6
sassyfriend Wight Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 165	Hanna le, Thank you for the welcome. Not sure who or what the statue at Amon hen represents though.