LotR1-FotR-Seq11

[alatar]

Originally Posted by doug*platypus

On entering the mines, the Fellowship immediately find out that there have been previous kerfuffles, and that in all likelihood they will find goblins rather than the Dwarves that Gimli was sure were there. I think this ruins the surprise somewhat, and also leads to a bit of indecision on the part of the company. "Into the mines!" "Out of the mines!" "Into the mines again!". It seems to be a bit of a recurring theme with PJ that his characters don't know where they're going, or why (Éomer, Faramir, Sam).

The wargs that one hears help one make clearer decisions.

I thought that the reveal of the twenty-first hall, or wherever it was, with the pillars was not as impressive as Jackson intended it to be. It just looked like a CG shot of a bunch of pillars, to me, yet we are supposed to be filled with some grand sense of wonder. For those of you with access to the Alan Lee illustrated centenary edition of LOTR, I think that Lee's painting is considerably better. We see a few less pillars, with the Fellowship shown at the base of one for a truly grand sense of scale, and a shaft of light beaming in from outside. Also the pillars appear more carven, and there are vast vaults which make the place seem like some fabulous stone cathedral. Sam's comment about an eye-opener may have been more suited if PJ had shown us this hall exactly as Lee had envisioned it.

Much agreed, and glad that it's not only me. What, exactly, was I supposed to see? Here's a large room with large pillars. Wow! Also, the room seems to have no purpose, at least far as I can see (I'm no Dwarf, and my imagination may be limited.) And this room always brings up the point of, if your community's average height is <4 feet, why do you make pathways for giants that allow mortal enemies, like Dragons and Balrogs, to walk freely through the place? And another 'and,' if so much work was put into making such a splendid hall of columns, why couldn't the Dwarves spend a few minutes on the front door, which looks to me like lava spew.

Pippin's folly in disturbing the skeleton was pretty well done, but I guess by placing it here in the Chamber rather than earlier begs to ask the question, just how far away were those orcs that they reached the Fellowship so quickly?

The orcs and cave troll were actually nearby, touring the 'Columns of Khazad-dûm,' which is a big attraction of the evil set (which is the real reason that the orcs, trolls, Balrog and even Sauron sought to take the Halls of Durin's folk, as the admission fees in mithril prohibited entry).

Then the infamous surrounding of the Fellowship by thousands of orcses, which I totally don't buy. While I accept that the orcs are afraid of the Balrog, I don't think that fear would extend to giving up on almost certain victory over the Fellowship, and dinner to boot.

Thought that these guys were in league, or have we learned what meat burns in a Balrog's belly? I did like that Gandalf was able to detect the creature in a 'psychic' fashion, as that imparts some ability to the old man with the stick (unlike later, in RotK).

This is a bit of a mistake, I think, because it seems as if Boromir or Aragorn could have saved Gandalf by running to his aid and helping him up. It almost seems as if Gandalf lets go. He looks to be in a position where he could possibly scramble up on to the bridge. It would have been more plausible if the Balrog had simply dragged him off the bridge completely as per the book, with Gandalf vainly clutching at the stone. We then could have had the yell of "fly, you fools!" as Gandalf sails down into the abyss.

Didn't Ian McKellen have some say here? Didn't he think that just popping off the edge with a fare-thee-well wouldn't have worked? Think that he stated that there should be some 'edge' onto which he could cling for a moment. And, after watching TTT, did Gandalf actually just let go to continue the attack? If he were to have climbed up or were pulled up, the Balrog would have flown back up the passage on those wings, and then there'd be fire in Nanduhirion.

[alatar]

Watching the Moria scene recently on TV - the theatrical version - it caught me how silly the previous scene was. Frodo takes a tumble on the snows of Caradhras and the Ring falls from his neck. Here, the Watcher flings him around like so much bubble gum stuck to the end of your finger and yet the Ring stays put. Did the Ring have a fire for Boromir, falling for him, and not for the creature in the lake, which may have not been the best bearer? Was the Ring sick of being in a deep dark pool and so clung to Frodo for all it was worth?

Also, the much-maligned insectoid orcs that defy gravity and climb down the pillars to surround the Fellowship: did they take leave of this ability when battling the Nine earthbound walkers? What an advantage it would be to drop down upon your opponent...

[Sir Kohran]

Originally Posted by alatar

Watching the Moria scene recently on TV - the theatrical version - it caught me how silly the previous scene was. Frodo takes a tumble on the snows of Caradhras and the Ring falls from his neck. Here, the Watcher flings him around like so much bubble gum stuck to the end of your finger and yet the Ring stays put. Did the Ring have a fire for Boromir, falling for him, and not for the creature in the lake, which may have not been the best bearer? Was the Ring sick of being in a deep dark pool and so clung to Frodo for all it was worth?

Also, the much-maligned insectoid orcs that defy gravity and climb down the pillars to surround the Fellowship: did they take leave of this ability when battling the Nine earthbound walkers? What an advantage it would be to drop down upon your opponent...

Well...you answered your own question on the first point. We're told right at the start that the Ring has a will of its own. At the Council it 'sees' that Boromir is susceptible to it, and so when it sees a chance to reveal itself to him and re-awaken his desire for it, it takes it (think back to its almost poltergeist-like fall from Gollum's rock in the prologue).
However, another five hundred years in a dark cave with another witless monster is not what the Ring would want, hence it staying with Frodo during the roller-coaster tossing by the Watcher.
I don't think any of this is 'silly'.

Your second point is more accurate. However, in the book the orcs came through the door on foot, so that's what the film chose. Wouldn't want to go against the book now, would we?

[sassyfriend]

I sort of have a problem with the bridge scene as well. I don't know how Aragorn and Frodo manged not to fall off!