Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXVI - Úcenite Valto - Planning and Discussion Thread

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

It rather proves a little "rule" that I have always held true about this game, one which I have fallen foul of myself many times - if you come round to the view that someone is a Wolf, you can always find the material to justify that view, whether they be a Wolf or not.

Most assuredly. That's why theories are such a dangerous thing. So why is it, some times we can find things that so clearly point to a werewolf, and other times not? That's probably best left as an unanswerable question. Sigh. I have been stunned by my ability to fish them out in some games, and then equally stunned by my inability in other games.

[the phantom]

What a delightful little experience that was. That village was so fun that I think there is a good chance that it would have been fun even without my participation.

Originally Posted by SPM

If I did win, it was through no particular effort on my part.

Wrong. False. Winning was a feat, for it proves that you were successful at appearing innocent to your fellow villagers. More successful than me even judging by Mith's vote the final day.

Though I'm a bit peeved at you for lynching me. I'd only ever been lynched once (WW III), and I didn't want it to happen again.

Originally Posted by SPM

In any event, it would appear that both Wolves were dead by the end of Day 2. So I claim a village win.

Me too.

Originally Posted by SPM

Btw, phantom, your little ploy wouldn't have worked anyway. I have no intention of casting my final vote until I could be more or less certain that Mithalwen would not be returning.

But, could you at least admit that you were slightly outraged by my declaration that my earlier vote wasn't legitimate? I'd been saving that little gem for quite a while, and was itching for a chance to use it. As it got to be later on the final day, it didn't make any sense to me that Mith was the final WW, and you of course I had believed innocent for quite a while, but your choice to vote for me drew my righteous wrath and so I used my little invalid vote trick on you.

Twas nothing personal. As I said in the game, it was "Simply because you voted for me".

Originally Posted by Ang

But when I returned in the morning to find myself hanged, I saw red and started baying at my screen for Sauce's blood...

Not my blood, eh? Does that mean I am forgiven, Ang?

Originally Posted by lmp

I was convinced that the phantom was the final werewolf based on this basic truism: if he gets killed or lynched by the end of Day 3, he's innocent because no werewolf would want to let him live, so dangerous is he. If he lasts and lasts, he's a werewolf, for obvious reasons. Since both of the werewolves were killed by the end of Day 2, the choices were clearly random, and so the phantom survived as long as he did. So the "truism" still holds. I'll be watching you, phantom....

Lovely.

Oh, but one game defies the truism. I survived to the end as an innocent in the last WWJ game I played. Of course, it only happened because I falsely claimed to be the Hunter.

Originally Posted by SPM

if you come round to the view that someone is a Wolf, you can always find the material to justify that view, whether they be a Wolf or not

Aye, laddie.

Actually, I think it speaks volumes about our instincts the way we were so incredibly indecisive on that final day, and voting with such little conviction, and were unable to shake the thought that we were all three innocent.

[Boromir88]

I was unable to keep fully up with what was going on...what a bunch of jabber-mouths . But, from the few days I did it was just a great reading. Congrats Fea...and next time we should all trust phantom more...especially when he knows I'm innocent. It's actually kind of scary how good he can pin me down (I believe he is 2 for 2)...maybe I need to change something up.

Actually Sauce I believed you to be more likely a wolf than Diamond...hence why I changed my vote. I did have my reasons, I just didn't give them because my new favorite TV Show (Heroes) was coming on and I didn't have time.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Wrong. False. Winning was a feat, for it proves that you were successful at appearing innocent to your fellow villagers. More successful than me even judging by Mith's vote the final day.

Though I'm a bit peeved at you for lynching me. I'd only ever been lynched once (WW III), and I didn't want it to happen again.

Actually Phantom, I probably would have voted for Sauce if you hadn't presented me with a fait accompli. I knew that I was innocent and I had never particularly suspected either you though I couldn't discount you either. Since I am afraid I never quite believed the "I am not a werewolf" thing - I belong to the Mandy Rice Davies school of cynicism. However your vote made it easier for me since I didn't have a choice. Reasons for voting for Sauce was his rule check (cf Spawn in Di's game, yet it seemed less likely that a wolvish SpM would have kept me alive so long. I could never decide about either of you - you either both seemed guilty (when you lynched Ang who seemed quite innocent to me) or both innocent ..... which of course was the actuality.

I really did think it was likely both wolves were dead but since Fea had said we would keep going til one remained ... as I explained in game, lynching you and hoping that I was wrong seemed the only option... and having got so far I thougth I might aswell give myself a chance of winning.... I really thought SpM would decide to lynch me though.

I suppose that this game shows that people are more inclined to trust those who play in a closer style to them. What a game.. I kept finding odd post it notes and scribbles on my desk - trying to make sense of it all. I think it was the night kills not making sense that made me feel that the wolves were dead ...

[the phantom]

Since I am afraid I never quite believed the "I am not a werewolf" thing

Is there anyone at all who believed in my innocence based on that reasoning?

[Mithalwen]

Boromir did ..and look what happened to the poor blighter ...

[Roa_Aoife]

You know, after LMP's death, it occured to me that the one who killed him in the narration was the Dark Lady, and not a werewolf. I would have remarked on this, but I was killed. >P

I let me just say that it's horribly irritating to work up both rebuttal and analysis for the following Day, only to find myself dead.

Anyways, I had fun, despite my general uselessness. Maybe I can get more involved in the next game.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

That village was so fun that I think there is a good chance that it would have been fun even without my participation.

Surely not!

Originally Posted by the phantom

Wrong. False. Winning was a feat, for it proves that you were successful at appearing innocent to your fellow villagers. More successful than me even judging by Mith's vote the final day.

True, but it was still through little effort on my part. I really do believe that, unless Gifted and while a numerical advantage remains, an innocent should not be too concerned about being lynched - “in the cause”, as it were. Since there were no Gifteds in this game, I saw little reason to fight to survive until near to the end, and so did not bother spending much time defending myself. Perhaps I just naturally come across as the innocent-type.

You, on the other hand, my dear phantom, naturally come across as the guilty type. Not through anything in particular that you do or say. It’s just that anyone who has seen you play as a Wolf knows precisely what you are capable of and just how dangerous you can be, particularly when you give the impression that butter wouldn’t melt in your mouth. I really wanted to trust you in this game, but spent much of it fighting a natural instinct to suspect you.

Then again, I have been lynched three times to your two.

Originally Posted by the phantom

But, could you at least admit that you were slightly outraged by my declaration that my earlier vote wasn't legitimate?

Actually, I did notice at the time that your votes were not correctly stated, but took the view that they would be considered valid. It would have been interesting to have seen what would have happened had anything turned on it. Rest assured that I would have argued long and hard against your attempt to recast your vote, had it been necessary. And I would probably have won.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Actually Phantom, I probably would have voted for Sauce if you hadn't presented me with a fait accompli.

Yes, I was aware of that. I should really thank the phantom for helping me to achieve the dubious honour of last villager standing. Had it not been for that fait accompli, and assuming that chance would have favoured him as it did me, he would probably have achieved that “honour” himself.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Is there anyone at all who believed in my innocence based on that reasoning?

I was inclined to take it at face value until the final Day, when I could no longer ignore the distinct possibility that you might be a Wolf after all.