What did Tolkien really mean .... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Fordim Hedgethistle · 11-23-2006, 08:15 AM

OK -- being terribly reductive and probably simplistic here...but couldn't Tolkien simply have been acknowledging the difference between the creating-writer who pens a first draft and the editing-writer who takes that great shambles and renders it "finished" insofar as he makes sure that it "makes sense" (i.e. is internally coherent, presents a unified story and vision of its characters and action).

The creating-writer (in this model) simply goes with the story and gets it down. The editing-writer is one who shapes that material -- and given that Tolkien was Catholic and his work engages with moral issues it makes sense that this act of re-vision would be undertaken from that perspective.

Maybe the Professor was just being honest: "As I was revising the story I was conscious of the fact that I was a Catholic man who was reshaping it and rendering it coherent."

Lalwendë · 11-23-2006, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle

OK -- being terribly reductive and probably simplistic here...but couldn't Tolkien simply have been acknowledging the difference between the creating-writer who pens a first draft and the editing-writer who takes that great shambles and renders it "finished" insofar as he makes sure that it "makes sense" (i.e. is internally coherent, presents a unified story and vision of its characters and action).

The creating-writer (in this model) simply goes with the story and gets it down. The editing-writer is one who shapes that material -- and given that Tolkien was Catholic and his work engages with moral issues it makes sense that this act of re-vision would be undertaken from that perspective.

Maybe the Professor was just being honest: "As I was revising the story I was conscious of the fact that I was a Catholic man who was reshaping it and rendering it coherent."

Bearing in mind his dislike of allegory and 'message' Literature, you're probably correct. It likely does boil down to something as simple as the following: Tolkien taking up his text in the editing process and making sure references to Earthly religions were excised, and him making sure that the story itself was sympathetic to his own moral systems (e.g. you can imagine him making sure Aragorn behaved with perfect manners towards Eowyn, who obviously fancied him, a 'taken' man.

And Love to Tolkien was a lifelong choice, something most definitely influenced by his Catholicism - though it might have also been personal!).

mark12_30 · 11-23-2006, 07:49 PM

What Child and Fordie said.

What Child said: after having writen three novels and two rpg's, I reread them and frequently think, "My God, I remember writing that part-- but I didn't plan on it coming together like that." There is the sense of looking over your shoulder, and up.

And (regarding what Fordie said) if I now were to go back and edit them-- as I have half done with TFW, but never finished -- much would change. I would niggle (always did.) And I would seek to convey something somewhat different than I had initially sought to convey. Why? Because of the things that I see in it now that I didn't plan when I wrote it; because of that sense of looking over my shoulder, that has changed the way I myself see the story. It has two authors, now.

11-23-2006, 08:15 AM	#1
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	OK -- being terribly reductive and probably simplistic here...but couldn't Tolkien simply have been acknowledging the difference between the creating-writer who pens a first draft and the editing-writer who takes that great shambles and renders it "finished" insofar as he makes sure that it "makes sense" (i.e. is internally coherent, presents a unified story and vision of its characters and action). The creating-writer (in this model) simply goes with the story and gets it down. The editing-writer is one who shapes that material -- and given that Tolkien was Catholic and his work engages with moral issues it makes sense that this act of re-vision would be undertaken from that perspective. Maybe the Professor was just being honest: "As I was revising the story I was conscious of the fact that I was a Catholic man who was reshaping it and rendering it coherent." __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.

11-23-2006, 07:49 PM	#3
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	What Child and Fordie said. What Child said: after having writen three novels and two rpg's, I reread them and frequently think, "My God, I remember writing that part-- but I didn't plan on it coming together like that." There is the sense of looking over your shoulder, and up. And (regarding what Fordie said) if I now were to go back and edit them-- as I have half done with TFW, but never finished -- much would change. I would niggle (always did.) And I would seek to convey something somewhat different than I had initially sought to convey. Why? Because of the things that I see in it now that I didn't plan when I wrote it; because of that sense of looking over my shoulder, that has changed the way I myself see the story. It has two authors, now. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.