How would you have gone about more successfully toppling Sauron ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Essex · 11-09-2006, 09:20 AM

Joking aside, the Eagles and the Balrogs could be trempted by the Ring. Give them access to it, they will be tempted just as Gandalf, Boromir etc were.

The plot of LOTR is SO TIGHT that even a small change has domino like ramifications. I remember a great thread on another site a few years back that asked what if Glorfindel replaced Pippin in the Fellowship? I ended up explaining that it would mean the end of Middle-earth as we know it.

I therefore put it to you that any other attempt to defeat Sauron and the Powers of Darkness would have ended in total failure

11-09-2006, 09:54 AM

If you tried to find reasons why the actual constellation could fail you certainly would also find them... every way depends on coincidences and actions of the involved persons or creatures which cannot be foreseen.
Tolkien's way is perfect, but that doesn't mean there could not be another one, I think, even though you had to change more than just a detail.

alatar · 11-09-2006, 09:56 AM

If Gandalf were paying attention, he would have realized immediately that Bilbo's Ring was the One. While Sauron was retreating from Dol Guldur, Gandalf would have, using Shadowfax's sire, raced him to Mordor. At that point it would be a sprint for the Sammath Naur. Gandalf, having legs, could easily outrun the Eye.

Sauron would be obviously motivated; Gandalf would be likewise, being foresighted, knowing that if he didn't destroy Sauron then and there, he would be cursed later to journey the better part of a year with Pippin.

Run, Gandalf, run!

Another strategy would be for the Eagles to take Bilbo aside and simply drop him into Mount Doom.

Sure, you'd still have fire and ruin in the north, and a Balrog loose in Moria, but it's not up to us to right all wrongs, but to give others clean earth to till (or something).

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 11-09-2006, 10:12 AM

One, quite obvious, way he could have written it would have had the good guys win in battle. He'd probably have to invoke some other semi-mythical kingdom from the far east or whatever to come to Gondor's aid, because Mordor had such strength in numbers. Aragorn, of course, would slay Sauron on the field. Then, during the quarrel over the spoils, the Hobbits and Gandalf would steal away with the Ring — the Arkenstone manouver — and destroy it, saving the good guys from themselves.

This might actually appeal to those who love nothing better than the might of battle (though I think it would somewhat undermine the status of Sauron as this beasting, all-powerful Dark Lord).

Bêthberry · 11-09-2006, 10:19 AM

Well, it could all have been side-stepped if Elrond and Cirdan were given greater powers of persuasion and Isildur not allowed to be the vain, arrogant, pig-headed type he was.

That would have allowed The Professor to write an extensive piece on weregild and revenge, much as he did on chivalry and heroism. After all, death in battle can hardly be called wrongful death, so weregild really didn't apply, despite Isildur's claims.

This might have allowed The Professor also to write his own Silm instead of pouring all his sub-creative energies into LotR. Of course, that would have denied us the opportunity to berate or praise Tolkien Jr. for his compilation.

the phantom · 11-09-2006, 11:17 AM

What about a catapult?

mormegil · 11-09-2006, 01:34 PM

Yes Elrond simply could have pushed Isildur.

doug*platypus · 11-11-2006, 12:10 AM

LOTR... the kung fu version.

May not make a good book, but would solve the Sauron problem in only one movie!

Step 1: a whole lotta kung fu training scenes.

Step 2: Gandalf and his posse (a different fellowship from the original, including Glorfindel and other bad @ss elves) take on the 9 riders, Sauron's personal bodyguard. Gandalf alone walks out of the ensuing mayhem alive, with the Ring.

Step 3: unarmed kung fu battle between Gandalf and Sauron, in the Sammath Naur. For the coup de grâce, Gandalf sends the dark lord soaring into the fiery bowels of the mountain with a flying kick.

The Ring survives... room for a sequel... heck no, a franchise!

I'm surprised Peter Jackson didn't think of this.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 11-11-2006, 03:23 PM

Any film can be improved by turning it into a kung-fu version. I'm not sure if there is an accepted equivalent for books. We need to uncover this secret. Any ideas?

11-09-2006, 09:56 AM	#3
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	If Gandalf were paying attention, he would have realized immediately that Bilbo's Ring was the One. While Sauron was retreating from Dol Guldur, Gandalf would have, using Shadowfax's sire, raced him to Mordor. At that point it would be a sprint for the Sammath Naur. Gandalf, having legs, could easily outrun the Eye. Sauron would be obviously motivated; Gandalf would be likewise, being foresighted, knowing that if he didn't destroy Sauron then and there, he would be cursed later to journey the better part of a year with Pippin. Run, Gandalf, run! Another strategy would be for the Eagles to take Bilbo aside and simply drop him into Mount Doom. Sure, you'd still have fire and ruin in the north, and a Balrog loose in Moria, but it's not up to us to right all wrongs, but to give others clean earth to till (or something). __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

11-09-2006, 10:12 AM	#4
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	One, quite obvious, way he could have written it would have had the good guys win in battle. He'd probably have to invoke some other semi-mythical kingdom from the far east or whatever to come to Gondor's aid, because Mordor had such strength in numbers. Aragorn, of course, would slay Sauron on the field. Then, during the quarrel over the spoils, the Hobbits and Gandalf would steal away with the Ring — the Arkenstone manouver — and destroy it, saving the good guys from themselves. This might actually appeal to those who love nothing better than the might of battle (though I think it would somewhat undermine the status of Sauron as this beasting, all-powerful Dark Lord). __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

11-09-2006, 10:19 AM	#5
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Well, it could all have been side-stepped if Elrond and Cirdan were given greater powers of persuasion and Isildur not allowed to be the vain, arrogant, pig-headed type he was. That would have allowed The Professor to write an extensive piece on weregild and revenge, much as he did on chivalry and heroism. After all, death in battle can hardly be called wrongful death, so weregild really didn't apply, despite Isildur's claims. This might have allowed The Professor also to write his own Silm instead of pouring all his sub-creative energies into LotR. Of course, that would have denied us the opportunity to berate or praise Tolkien Jr. for his compilation. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

11-09-2006, 11:17 AM	#6
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	What about a catapult? __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

11-09-2006, 01:34 PM	#7
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Yes Elrond simply could have pushed Isildur. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

11-09-2006, 09:20 AM	#1
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Joking aside, the Eagles and the Balrogs could be trempted by the Ring. Give them access to it, they will be tempted just as Gandalf, Boromir etc were. The plot of LOTR is SO TIGHT that even a small change has domino like ramifications. I remember a great thread on another site a few years back that asked what if Glorfindel replaced Pippin in the Fellowship? I ended up explaining that it would mean the end of Middle-earth as we know it. I therefore put it to you that any other attempt to defeat Sauron and the Powers of Darkness would have ended in total failure

11-09-2006, 09:54 AM	#2
zeen Guest Posts: n/a	If you tried to find reasons why the actual constellation could fail you certainly would also find them... every way depends on coincidences and actions of the involved persons or creatures which cannot be foreseen. Tolkien's way is perfect, but that doesn't mean there could not be another one, I think, even though you had to change more than just a detail.

11-11-2006, 12:10 AM	#8
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	LOTR... the kung fu version. May not make a good book, but would solve the Sauron problem in only one movie! Step 1: a whole lotta kung fu training scenes. Step 2: Gandalf and his posse (a different fellowship from the original, including Glorfindel and other bad @ss elves) take on the 9 riders, Sauron's personal bodyguard. Gandalf alone walks out of the ensuing mayhem alive, with the Ring. Step 3: unarmed kung fu battle between Gandalf and Sauron, in the Sammath Naur. For the coup de grâce, Gandalf sends the dark lord soaring into the fiery bowels of the mountain with a flying kick. The Ring survives... room for a sequel... heck no, a franchise! I'm surprised Peter Jackson didn't think of this.

11-11-2006, 03:23 PM	#9
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Any film can be improved by turning it into a kung-fu version. I'm not sure if there is an accepted equivalent for books. We need to uncover this secret. Any ideas? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond