The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


View Poll Results: Gollum went into the Crack of Doom because
he slipped 26 44.83%
Eru willed it 16 27.59%
he jumped on purpose 7 12.07%
the quest needed to end this way to make sense 9 15.52%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 10-31-2006, 10:46 PM   #33
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,521
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
I could see it being Option C, had Gollum actually, truly and fully repented. In Letter #94, 96, and 246, Tolkien stresses that Gollum nearly repented...and he would have fully repented had it not been for Sam's harsh words at the crucial moment (when Sam mistakes Gollum's 'pawing' at Frodo). Had this happened, and Gollum truly repented from the Ring, here's what Tolkien felt like Gollum would have done on Mount Doom:
Quote:
"But possession satisfied I think he would then have sacrificed himself for Frodo’s sake and have voluntarily cast himself into the fiery abyss"~Letter 246
However, in the story that we are given, Gollum didn't truly repent, so I don't think Option C...he jumped in voluntarily, was what really happened....as it is set up as a 'what if scenario' by Tolkien.

Somebody remarked that Option A seems to coincidental and I think that's a good way of putting it. I mean here's this long journey reached by Frodo and Sam, and Gollum just happened to slip in...story over. What's the lesson here, what's the importance of this moment during the Ring's destruction? (If you think there is one). I just don't think it's Tolkien's style to simply have the Ring's end, along with Sauron's, based on something as accidental as a slip. But, I'm often somebody that tries to look deeply into everything...as if there's some coded message.

I did vote for Option B, but I think it can also go hand and hand with Option D. I chose B instead because I think it goes better with two key morals of the story that are set up from the very beginning over the book...and that is Pity and Mercy. These two are stressed from the very beginning of the book with Gandalf's warning about don't be too eager to pass out death and judgement...also stressing the importance of Bilbo's Pity towards Gollum when he gets the Ring. It continues with Aragorn, Theoden, and others offering to spare Grima's life, despite the horrible treacheries he has done. Then our heroes go on to offer Saruman his own redemption. Therefor I think Pity and Mercy are themes that would continue throughout the story...and I think they certainly do.

Frodo spares Gollum's life and this is the important fact that Tolkien stresses. Elladan has quoted these in full above, but I'll just take a few brief exerpts to illustrate my point. If we look at this Letter (#192) by itself, it certainly looks like Eru destroyed the Ring (along with Gollum) simply because he felt like doing it, and because he COULD do it:
Quote:
Frodo deserved all honour because he spent every drop of his power and will, and that was just sufficient to bring him to the destined point, and no further. Few others, possibly no others of his time, would have got so far. The Other Power then took over: the Writer of the Story (by which I do not mean myself) 'that one ever present person who is never absent and never named' (as one critic has said)
Taking this quote by itself it looks like Eru just got involved because he could do it and he wanted to, but I think this is taken out of context without some other Letters to go with it (181 and 246):
Quote:
'But at this point the 'salvation' of the world and Frodo's own 'savation' is achieved by his previous pity and forgiveness of injury. At any point any prudent person would have told Frodo that Gollum would ceratinly betray him, and could rob him in the end. To 'pity' him, to forbear to kill him, was a piece of folly, or a mystical beleif in the ultimate value-in-itself of pity and generosity even if disastrous in the world of time. He did rob him and injure him in the end- but by a 'grace' that last betrayal was at a precise juncture when the final evil, deed was the most beneficial thing any one could have done for Frodo! By a situation , created by his 'forgiveness',he was saved himself and releived of his burden.'
Quote:
''Frodo had done what he could and spent himself completely (as an instrument of Providence) and had produced a situation in which the object of his quest could be achieved. His humility (with which he began) and his sufferings were justly rewarded by the highest hounour; and his exercise of patience and mercy towards Gollum gained him Mercy: his failure was redressed.''~Letter 246
It wasn't such a simply matter as Eru felt like destroying the Ring so it was done. He decided to step in because Frodo had failed in his attempt...however Eru felt like Frodo deserved to have that failure redressed, to have it absolved and relieve Frodo of the Ring, because of Frodo's Pity towards Gollum.

Now, the conflict comes that all these quotes are from Letters Tolkien wrote about after writing the books and reflecting upon how he felt about them. So, whether somebody reads the story and feels the same way is up to them. I do think that Pity and Mercy are consistant re-occuring themes throughout the entire books, therefor because of Frodo's Pity it was Eru who decided to step in and cause Gollum's fall...destroying the Ring.

Also, if we think about Option B, it wouldn't be all that unusual, or something that would strike me as 'out of the ordinary.' Considering this wouldn't have been the first time Eru would have stuck his hands into the fate of Middle-earth...As he was the one who took up the Valar's mission of sending the Istari and sent Gandalf back with a power boost to deal with Theoden and Saruman.
__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.