Sorcery

[Mänwe]

Originally posted by Raynor,

I believe these are the two mentionings to Eru that Tolkien reffered to in his BBC interview.

Really! Well thank you for including them in your post otherwise I would never have known, I am surprised. Another point I must concede.

Originally posted by Raynor,

I agree; moreover, I believe that all of Sauron's terms would be just another trick of his;

True, though I was thinking along the lines of himself (Mouth of Sauron) giving himself this title, thus sounding, 'self proclaimed'.

Thank you also for alerting me to other 'nicknames' you have for these characters, no doubt I shall see them all used before the end...

What are your thoughts as 'song' as 'magic'?

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Originally posted by Boromir88

...he boots Saruman and places someone he feels he can trust and who can do the job.

What makes you think it would be as easy as that? We are aware of the limitations 'set' upon the Istari in regards to their 'power', seeing as Saruman had fallen into corruption, would he not find it just as easy to break this rule. And challenge Sauron directly with the power he has. Or rather had till his defeat at Helm's Deep. (i.e. had he triumphed, how soon would he have moved?)

I believe my post concurs with yours on the view that Sauron 'praised' you for who you are. Repetition of the quote;

“…because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron.’” – (The Black Gate Opens, Return of the King)

'cunning' being the operative word here. I would also like to highlight a point you made Boromir88 in your superb post, that the Mouth of Sauron was 'Second-in-Command'.

Here I think the hammer strikes true, while the Witch-King (perhaps Raynor you might call him Kammy? ) would have control of the army on the battlefield. I do not think he would disobey an 'order' (this order albeit coming from Sauron) from the Mouth of Sauron. Thus I propose the 'rank' and 'power' go to Mouthie.

Because, as you have pointed out, Sauron loved order, hierachical order, and it seems some of his orders come through the Mouth of Sauron, thus this pattern of command would continue.

Originally posted by Boromir88

It is about who can be the most effective in running, controlling, and co-ordination.

Are these not traits for someone who is powerfull?

(I am warning myself here, we are now in the realms of speculation and although a rather stimulating debate of opinion, no real evidence is being used.)

(I would further add, that both your posting has been sublime, I wait to tribute you again, since the last time I did, however it seems I must "spread some more reputation around elsewhere" first.)