The Undying Lands

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Not in Valinor. Valinor is Elftown... a paradise, yes, but for elves, not men, dwarves, or hobbits. Frodo (& Sam, & Bilbo) went to Valinor as guests, and not as ghosts, but as living Hobbits.

However, once they reach the end of their years, they will die-- presumably then going to the place where the Old Took is. Aragorn calls it "Beyond the circles of the world." What exactly that means...?

And-- What Legolas said-- Hear, hear. Read the Sil.

Basically the dead go to the hall of Mandos which seems to be a place where they hang out with other dead people.

I basically think that the undying lands had SOME charm or power for otherwise why would Frodo say to sam-"...my wounds are too great to be healed in Middle Earth Sam.."(or something like that) perhaps old wounds could be forgotten perhaps life could be extended indefinitely i think old JRRT himself wasn't clear on this he has contradicted himself many times.
You can reply privately at my email address sayan_mukherjee_1990@yahoo.com and we'll have a nice chat i'm just DYING to talk to some one about it!

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Lord Sayan

I basically think that the undying lands had SOME charm or power for otherwise why would Frodo say to sam-"...my wounds are too great to be healed in Middle Earth Sam.."(or something like that) perhaps old wounds could be forgotten perhaps life could be extended indefinitely i think old JRRT himself wasn't clear on this he has contradicted himself many times.

Tolkien addressed this quite on point:

Originally Posted by Letter #153

Immortality and Mortality being the special gifts of God to the Eruhini (in whose conception and creation the Valar had no part at all) it must be assumed that no alteration of their fundamental kind could be effected by the Valar even in one case: the cases of Luthien (and Tuor) and the position of their descendants was a direct act of God.

Originally Posted by Letter #325

As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time – whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer 'immortality' upon them. Their sojourn was a 'purgatory', but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves knew nothing.

Originally Posted by Aman and Mortal Men, Myths Transformed, HoME X

The Valar were not only by Eru forbidden the attempt, they could not (emphasis original) alter the nature, or 'doom' of Eru, of any of the Children, in which was included the speed of their growth (relative to the whole life of Arda) and the length of their life-span. Even the Eldar in that respect remained unchanged.

[Legolas]

Lord Sayan - what contradictions are you referring to?

It sounded like you were speaking of the fate of the mortals (Gimli, Bilbo, Frodo, Sam) that went to Aman. I put together an article about it here.

Tolkien sounds sure of himself when he says these things. Here are definitive statements (in addition to those quoted by Raynor above).

Letter 154:

But in this story it is supposed that there may be certain rare exceptions or accommodations (legitimately supposed? there always seem to be exceptions); and so certain 'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo (by the express gift of Arwen) and Bilbo, and eventually Sam (as adumbrated by Frodo); and as a unique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel. I have said nothing about it in this book, but the mythical idea underlying is that for mortals, since their 'kind' cannot be changed for ever, this is strictly only a temporary reward: a healing and redress of suffering. They cannot abide for ever, and though they cannot return to mortal earth, they can and will 'die' of free will, and leave the world.

Letter 246:

'Alas! there are some wounds that cannot be wholly cured', said Gandalf (III 268) not in Middle-earth. Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to a purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness, spent still in Time amid the natural beauty of 'Arda Unmarred', the Earth unspoiled by evil.