Barliman Butterbrain - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

mark12_30 · 01-14-2004, 11:04 AM

Bravo, Mr. Underhill.

Somehow Barliman reminds me of Sam's Gaffer; comical, but tough in a pinch, and not as stupid as he looks, either.

I think this was one of Tolkien's favorite themes; Ioreth, Sam, Pippin, and again, The Gaffer. Everybody loves to chuckle at the Gaffer, but who stood up to the Black Rider at Number Three Bagshot Row and sent him packing? "Be off!"

Speaking of Ioreth, remember Gandalf's line: Then go find someone with less lore and more wisdom who keeps athelas around for headaches... "less lore, more wisdom"-- the hidden virtues of the commoner. FOr instance, Tolkien had an appreciation for the plucky courage and bravery-in-a-pinch of the average English footsoldier. He said the same things about hobbits in general; brave enough in a pinch. He liked bringing surprises to the surface in his characters. In Aragorn's case, turns out he's royalty in disguise; in Barliman's case, turns out he has a shrewd streak. Who'd have guessed?

As for perfect memory: Even Gandalf forgot the entry spell at the gates of Moria. A few more seconds and they all would have been Watcher Munchies.

edit: Diamond 18, and Mr. Underhill, regarding "Show don't Tell", I don't think that Tolkien is using Gandalf to "Tell". I think he's showing us how Gandalf feels about Butterbur. How else would he do it? Gandalf isn't the huggy type.

It would have been "Telling" if Tolkien had said, "But Dear Reader, remember that Butturbur really had more under his hat than the average Breelander gave him credit for..." And indeed, Tolkien sometimes does that; sometimes for instance he Tells us how Sam feels about Frodo. (And I agree, Mr. Underhill, I don't mind it a bit.) But I don't think Tolkien is doing that here.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 12:15 PM January 14, 2004: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

01-14-2004, 11:04 AM	#1
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Bravo, Mr. Underhill. Somehow Barliman reminds me of Sam's Gaffer; comical, but tough in a pinch, and not as stupid as he looks, either. I think this was one of Tolkien's favorite themes; Ioreth, Sam, Pippin, and again, The Gaffer. Everybody loves to chuckle at the Gaffer, but who stood up to the Black Rider at Number Three Bagshot Row and sent him packing? "Be off!" Speaking of Ioreth, remember Gandalf's line: Then go find someone with less lore and more wisdom who keeps athelas around for headaches... "less lore, more wisdom"-- the hidden virtues of the commoner. FOr instance, Tolkien had an appreciation for the plucky courage and bravery-in-a-pinch of the average English footsoldier. He said the same things about hobbits in general; brave enough in a pinch. He liked bringing surprises to the surface in his characters. In Aragorn's case, turns out he's royalty in disguise; in Barliman's case, turns out he has a shrewd streak. Who'd have guessed? As for perfect memory: Even Gandalf forgot the entry spell at the gates of Moria. A few more seconds and they all would have been Watcher Munchies. edit: Diamond 18, and Mr. Underhill, regarding "Show don't Tell", I don't think that Tolkien is using Gandalf to "Tell". I think he's showing us how Gandalf feels about Butterbur. How else would he do it? Gandalf isn't the huggy type. It would have been "Telling" if Tolkien had said, "But Dear Reader, remember that Butturbur really had more under his hat than the average Breelander gave him credit for..." And indeed, Tolkien sometimes does that; sometimes for instance he Tells us how Sam feels about Frodo. (And I agree, Mr. Underhill, I don't mind it a bit.) But I don't think Tolkien is doing that here. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 12:15 PM January 14, 2004: Message edited by: mark12_30 ] __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.