'Spun Candy' anyone?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

I daresay that this is too simplistic. A key theme of Tolkien's is of a desire to do good which ends in evil, great or small. You have the characters who are obviously deluding themselves, like Saruman, but then you also have Sam snapping at Gollum at a critical moment -- to help Frodo, but perhaps with the ultimate effect of tilting Gollum away from redemption forever. Good and evil are not so clear in Tolkien as Pullman would like to think they are.

I would say that Good & Evil are clearly defined in Tolkien's world. Though individuals may not be entirely clear on how to do the right thing they are clear on what it is. Where they fail, as in the examples you cite, they have either decided that the end justifies the means (Saruman), so that they are free to commit evil acts in order to bring about ultimate Good, or they are so focussed on the Good (Sam) that they fail to take into account the effect of their actions on present circumstances.

So, my position is that Good & Evil are clearly & sharply defined by Tolkien, but the moral choice each individual faces is how to do the right thing, not what the right thing is (I'm speaking here of the bigger picture, the ultimate goal). Sam knew he had treated Gollum badly - he apologises to him after his outburst. Saruman knew he had taken the wrong road & rejected his chances of repentance.

To say that 'good & evil are not clear in Tolkien' is to imply that there is an objective question over what, exactly, is Good & what is Evil. Certainly there is a subjective question (if I may put it as awkwardly as that). In the conclusion to HDM any objective moral system, imposed from on high, is removed & it is down to individuals to determine what is Good & what is Evil, come to a consensus, & attempt to make that ideal a reality. In Tolkien's world Good & Evil are sharply defined by Eru. The individual's struggle is to do Good, not determine what, exactly Good is - what I mean is that it is for the individual to discover what (objectively existing) Good is, not to decide for themselves what is Good (which in all probability means what is good for them).