The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Durelin · 07-25-2006, 04:19 PM

I think Vror will have to be a brave soul since he probably hasn't been when it comes to the horse he's been stuck on...or, well, clinging to, or something of that nature...

Child of the 7th Age · 07-25-2006, 04:44 PM

Durelin,

Sounds good. I haven't heard from Hilde yet, but I hope she'll be able to do it if she has a few days.

Child of the 7th Age · 07-25-2006, 04:48 PM

Folwren & Hilde & everyone in this rpg.....

Durelin and I were thinking this may be a good time to stop and do some serious group planning, and make sure we're on the same page.....for the orcs and slaves as well as the fellowship. Folwren -- I hope this will answer your concerns plus a lot more thrown in as well.

I'll give below what Durelin and I had envisioned. If it doesn't work, we'll fiddle with things of course. Plus, there are many questions that still need answering.

The children were kidnapped during the night. So far everything that has happened to Kwell and Azhar occurred in the space of a single night: imprisonment and attempted escape. The fellowship has now arrived at the slavers' camp early the next morning. It's still fairly early....the sun has risen and it is daylight.

At this point in the storyline, most of the slavers are scurrying around camp trying to figure out who/what has stolen the horses/donkeys. Their attention is not on the children. I was going to do one post by the orc Makdush that would throw the camp into even greater turmoil with the theft of Imak's valuable sword. Because of this loss, Imak's attention will be diverted from Kwell and Azhar at the last minute, perhaps just when he is striding over to deal with them. This will give the fellowship a chance to rescue the children while only having to confront a few guards. Even aside from the timing and the theft, my feeling is that no matter what Kwell has done, Imak is unlikely to kill him. The slavers are motivated by money, and they want to get their due for the slaves they have captured.

I also think Imak will decide the most likely culprits who stole his sword and the horses would have been some slaves who'd managed to track them down. The slavers are out in the middle of nowhere and, as far as they know, no one else is nearby. Moreover, Imak could not imagine slaves willingly coming to the slavers' camp just to rescue two useless children. That is beyond the realm of anything he would do. He assumes most of the slaves will try and flee; a few might come over and try to steal from him. If Imak thinks even a small gang of slaves is stealing from him, he is likely to want to take revenge by assembling a war party and turning swiftly on the entire slave camp as he threatened to do initially.

Imak's idea of revenge would not be killing a single boy, but turning against all the slaves and leading an attack on them. The greater danger would be that Imak would be preparing to launch that attack very shortly after the fellowship arrived at the slavers' camp. Perhaps the members of the fellowship can notice that preparations are going on to launch an attack later that day?

Durelin and I originally talked about whether the fellowship should be the only ones to rescue the kids or whether the slaves would send a party to do that as well, and the two groups (fellowship/slaves) would meet up at the slave camp. (The main body of slaves would presumably be camped some distance away with some women, the children etc. --this would be a smaller group sent out.) We decided to leave that question up in the air. Since the slaves were very involved with problems of their own (that required some interesting character development), we agreed that the fellowship would go ahead and do the rescue, if they got to the slave camp first. However, both of us agreed it could go either way.

So we have several options here:

The fellowship alone rescues the kids. They ride back as fast as possible to the main slave camp with the slavers almost following on their heels (or perhaps not quite as closely as that).,
The slaves send out a party to try and rescue the slaves themselves. The two groups meet up and do a joint rescue. (If we do this, my personal preference is that the groups act together without questioning each other's motives/roles etc., which may happen later.) The slaves and fellowship ride back together to the slaves' camp with the slavers not too far behind.
Something else entirely that I haven't thought of, and perhaps someone else will.

Either way, the next scene would be a major battle between the slavers and the combined slave/fellowship group with heads rolling and such

where the slavers are defeated.

After that we would immediately bring the orcs into the picture. Durelin and I had originally discussed the slaves/fellowship occupying the slavers' old camp (perhaps getting the rest of the supplies for themselves?). The orcs will continue to rob for food --- slaves or slavers would make no difference to them, and several of the orcs (all of those actually played by people?) would likely be discovered.

There is an interesting statement by Tolkien about orcs in HoME. I'll have to find it later for the exact words. Basically it said that no orc had ever asked for mercy but that if one ever did, a "good person" would be obliged to give that mercy. That is the situation we were thinking of.....one or more of the captured orcs (possibly a woman?) would make such a request. The slaves/fellowship must decide what to do.

There is also the complication of Orc children. As much as the slaves hate the orcs, how are they going to feel about murdering a nine-year old in cold blood? That is what would have to happen if they decided to slay the orcs for robbing them. One other possibility I know about is being planned behind the scenes--the possibility of at least some independent and semi-positive contact between the captured slave children and the orc child. This is another complication to put in the pot.

In the long run, there has to be some reason for the orcs to stay together with the slaves/fellowship. Presumably that reason would have to be one or more threats too big for either of them to handle. They are forced together out of necessity. (Maybe the orcs even leave and then come back because of what they've seen or experienced??) That is the next thing we'd have to work on.

Durelin and I had some idea about what that threat might be, but would love to hear other suggestions as we haven't nailed this down. So if anyone has good ideas about this or something else in the plot, feel free to post here or, if you prefer, send a pm. I know there are individual "secrets" and I'm not asking for those here -- just general plot stuff.

At some point after the three groups join, there will likely be a time condense post where we chew up a lot of time and ground in getting north.

Folwren -- that's a long answer but does it help?

Hilde -- The scouting post doesn't have to go up today, especially since we've raised a planning issue here that will take some time for people to respond. Do you think you'd be able to do a post like that in the next few days in conjunction with one or more by Durelin for her Dwarf?

Hilde Bracegirdle · 07-25-2006, 05:55 PM

So sorry to have been silent at this end. But my tribe and I were all under the dental drill and have just returned from our adventure!

Thank you too, for taking the time to get us all coordinated. Am I to understand that the dwarf has also been volunteered? I could try to get some thing written in the next few days, but I am thinking that I might not find a sizable chunk of time until Friday evening.

Child, I will be sending you a PM shortly.

Regin Hardhammer · 07-25-2006, 06:38 PM

I deleted my old save and put a new post up. Nogrod take a look at it and get back with me.

- Regin

Folwren · 07-25-2006, 07:52 PM

Well, see here. . .one thing I see is that realistically, the slaves could not have caught up to the slavers that night to rescue the kids in the early morning. I think Imak would figure this out, with his stuff dissapearing and all that. It is especially not likely since for some time after the attack, the slaves have been busy in their ranks with inner problems and haven't even decided if they should go after them. I am not writing any character that is part of the slave group, but it is my humble opinion (not given so humbly now, I know, but I'm still alright with it being ignored) is that the slaves should not be there for a joint rescue. If you think you can somehow figure out how the slaves could be there, then that would be fine, I guess. . .but, really, I can't think. Didn't the slavers attack late at night?

Here. . .let me draw the times out.

What season is it?

Okay, between 8 and 9 it becomes dark. Watches are set. Two - three hours each? I'm not sure which, I would guess two hours.

First watch - 9-11
Second watch - 11-1
Third watch - 1-3

The boy, Adnan, has promised to watch well, but he doesn't and doze off. But a chap who's promised to stay awake will, for most of the time. So, the slavers attack around 2:30 a.m. They're in and out by 2:45. The slave camp is set into uproar for at least an hour. By then, it's 3:45. Dawn is in two hours, or two and a half. The slavers rode for about an hour, too, and they didn't ride slowly.

I don't know what sort of time there is after that. We've crammed a lot into that time.

How many slavers are there? Can the fellowship just march in, kill the three guards, and take them without being really opposed? Where are the rest? Are they actually going to go off searching for their missing goods? I guess it really wouldn’t take that long to haul the two kids out of the pit. They can take care of the guards quietly, the elf, Dorran, and Rog can manage that. Then Aiwendil and Vror can rush in to help. Two people can drop down into the pit to unbind the children and lift them up so that the others on top can pull them out. Athwen and Carl will not be needed for this approach of rescue, both being unfit for dragging the kids out of the pit like that and also unable to jump back out again.

On the ride out away from camp (do they know in which direction the slaves are?) the children can be put up onto a horse in front of another rider – one strong enough to hold them up as they run the horses. The children are probably not used to riding and they will also be worn out and liable to slip off if not stabilized.

I have no time to think further than this on the matter. What I have just said is only my opinion stated at length. Take it or leave it as you think best. You can do whatever you think best.

As for what you wrote answering my question. . .I guess it does. Kind of. But if Imak is getting robbed right and left, would he just pack up camp and move out, in the hopes of being able to out-run whoever is pestering him? Also, I know that he wouldn’t kill Kwell, but goodness knows what a man like that out of temper will do when he knows his limits, and when his limits allow certain brutalities to be done. But there really doesn’t seem to be much time, which is good. . .

Goodness, the more I talk, the more confused I get and feel like I’m running circles. There are so many people to think about in this. Has what I just said made any sense? I hope it did, because I’m leaving now. I’ll do more brainstorming for you tomorrow when I’ve more time.

-- Folwren

Child of the 7th Age · 07-26-2006, 12:19 AM

Thanks Folwren. Many of your ideas make great sense! Yes, it is confusing because we have three separate story strands and we're coming to the point where they need to join together. Not easy to do that. Let me spell out where I agree and disagree.

Quote:

. . .one thing I see is that realistically, the slaves could not have caught up to the slavers that night to rescue the kids in the early morning.

Quote:

it is my humble opinion... that the slaves should not be there for a joint rescue.

About the distances and times..... First, you did a great job sketching out the timeline for the night. It makes it much clearer.

I agree. The slaves could not get there by early morning. Your timeline shows that. If we assume the slavers took one hour to return to camp and galloping horses go 6.7 mph (Fonstad's figure), the distance between the two camps is 6-7 miles. A person can walk 2.5 mph. That means the slaves would need three hours to get to the slavers' camp. The best a group of slaves could do would be to make it there by mid-day. If we wanted to make it a joint effort, the fellowship could put off their rescue until the cover of darkness the following evening. (They may or may not decide to do that anyway.) That would be doable, since I think the slavers would likely not try to ride over to attack the slaves till the next morning.

Still, I agree with you. My personal preference is to have the fellowship alone rescue the slaves -- it's easier and cleaner and faster -- and only then ride to the slave camp.

I still think Imak assumes he's been robbed by slaves. He doesn't know about about several things, including the tumult in the slave camp. Plus, just seven slavers orginally attacked the camp. They were in and out quickly. There were 65 slaves spread out around a series of small fires. That's a lot of ground to cover. Imak knew the slaves didn't have large numbers of horses, but he didn't see the whole camp. In his mind, the most resourceful slave leaders might still possess a few horses. If even three or four were mounted, they could make it over to the slavers' camp and do mischief. And if Imak really thinks that a few slaves have stolen his precious sword, he will definitely want to get back at them.

Quote:

How many slavers are there?

25 in all, but one or two now lack horses, thanks to "our allies" the orcs.

I think the seven members of the fellowship can rescue two prisoners in a disorganized camp, especially at night. I liked your description of the pit rescue a lot. The amount of resistence would depend on how we structure the rescue. If we're only talking about guards on the perimeter and one person watching the pit, I think resistence could be minimal.

As for Athwen's or Carl's role, that would be up to you and Hilde. There are things that could be done by "smaller" characters--creating diversions, helping to calm the children, gaining access in tight quarters or, perhaps even better, sneaking in and managing to add a sleeping potion to the flasks that the guards are carrying. (A healer with knowledge of herbs would be of great use in that situation. Such a move would definitely cut down on resistence

.)

Quote:

What season is it?

Not sure??

07-25-2006, 04:44 PM	#2
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Durelin, Sounds good. I haven't heard from Hilde yet, but I hope she'll be able to do it if she has a few days. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

07-25-2006, 04:48 PM	#3
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Folwren & Hilde & everyone in this rpg..... Durelin and I were thinking this may be a good time to stop and do some serious group planning, and make sure we're on the same page.....for the orcs and slaves as well as the fellowship. Folwren -- I hope this will answer your concerns plus a lot more thrown in as well. I'll give below what Durelin and I had envisioned. If it doesn't work, we'll fiddle with things of course. Plus, there are many questions that still need answering. The children were kidnapped during the night. So far everything that has happened to Kwell and Azhar occurred in the space of a single night: imprisonment and attempted escape. The fellowship has now arrived at the slavers' camp early the next morning. It's still fairly early....the sun has risen and it is daylight. At this point in the storyline, most of the slavers are scurrying around camp trying to figure out who/what has stolen the horses/donkeys. Their attention is not on the children. I was going to do one post by the orc Makdush that would throw the camp into even greater turmoil with the theft of Imak's valuable sword. Because of this loss, Imak's attention will be diverted from Kwell and Azhar at the last minute, perhaps just when he is striding over to deal with them. This will give the fellowship a chance to rescue the children while only having to confront a few guards. Even aside from the timing and the theft, my feeling is that no matter what Kwell has done, Imak is unlikely to kill him. The slavers are motivated by money, and they want to get their due for the slaves they have captured. I also think Imak will decide the most likely culprits who stole his sword and the horses would have been some slaves who'd managed to track them down. The slavers are out in the middle of nowhere and, as far as they know, no one else is nearby. Moreover, Imak could not imagine slaves willingly coming to the slavers' camp just to rescue two useless children. That is beyond the realm of anything he would do. He assumes most of the slaves will try and flee; a few might come over and try to steal from him. If Imak thinks even a small gang of slaves is stealing from him, he is likely to want to take revenge by assembling a war party and turning swiftly on the entire slave camp as he threatened to do initially. Imak's idea of revenge would not be killing a single boy, but turning against all the slaves and leading an attack on them. The greater danger would be that Imak would be preparing to launch that attack very shortly after the fellowship arrived at the slavers' camp. Perhaps the members of the fellowship can notice that preparations are going on to launch an attack later that day? Durelin and I originally talked about whether the fellowship should be the only ones to rescue the kids or whether the slaves would send a party to do that as well, and the two groups (fellowship/slaves) would meet up at the slave camp. (The main body of slaves would presumably be camped some distance away with some women, the children etc. --this would be a smaller group sent out.) We decided to leave that question up in the air. Since the slaves were very involved with problems of their own (that required some interesting character development), we agreed that the fellowship would go ahead and do the rescue, if they got to the slave camp first. However, both of us agreed it could go either way. So we have several options here: The fellowship alone rescues the kids. They ride back as fast as possible to the main slave camp with the slavers almost following on their heels (or perhaps not quite as closely as that)., The slaves send out a party to try and rescue the slaves themselves. The two groups meet up and do a joint rescue. (If we do this, my personal preference is that the groups act together without questioning each other's motives/roles etc., which may happen later.) The slaves and fellowship ride back together to the slaves' camp with the slavers not too far behind. Something else entirely that I haven't thought of, and perhaps someone else will. Either way, the next scene would be a major battle between the slavers and the combined slave/fellowship group with heads rolling and such where the slavers are defeated. After that we would immediately bring the orcs into the picture. Durelin and I had originally discussed the slaves/fellowship occupying the slavers' old camp (perhaps getting the rest of the supplies for themselves?). The orcs will continue to rob for food --- slaves or slavers would make no difference to them, and several of the orcs (all of those actually played by people?) would likely be discovered. There is an interesting statement by Tolkien about orcs in HoME. I'll have to find it later for the exact words. Basically it said that no orc had ever asked for mercy but that if one ever did, a "good person" would be obliged to give that mercy. That is the situation we were thinking of.....one or more of the captured orcs (possibly a woman?) would make such a request. The slaves/fellowship must decide what to do. There is also the complication of Orc children. As much as the slaves hate the orcs, how are they going to feel about murdering a nine-year old in cold blood? That is what would have to happen if they decided to slay the orcs for robbing them. One other possibility I know about is being planned behind the scenes--the possibility of at least some independent and semi-positive contact between the captured slave children and the orc child. This is another complication to put in the pot. In the long run, there has to be some reason for the orcs to stay together with the slaves/fellowship. Presumably that reason would have to be one or more threats too big for either of them to handle. They are forced together out of necessity. (Maybe the orcs even leave and then come back because of what they've seen or experienced??) That is the next thing we'd have to work on. Durelin and I had some idea about what that threat might be, but would love to hear other suggestions as we haven't nailed this down. So if anyone has good ideas about this or something else in the plot, feel free to post here or, if you prefer, send a pm. I know there are individual "secrets" and I'm not asking for those here -- just general plot stuff. At some point after the three groups join, there will likely be a time condense post where we chew up a lot of time and ground in getting north. Folwren -- that's a long answer but does it help? Hilde -- The scouting post doesn't have to go up today, especially since we've raised a planning issue here that will take some time for people to respond. Do you think you'd be able to do a post like that in the next few days in conjunction with one or more by Durelin for her Dwarf? __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote. Last edited by Child of the 7th Age; 07-25-2006 at 05:00 PM.

07-25-2006, 06:38 PM	#5
Regin Hardhammer Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tumunzahar/Nogrod Posts: 364	I deleted my old save and put a new post up. Nogrod take a look at it and get back with me. - Regin __________________ For once I myself saw with my own eyes the Sibyl at Cumae hanging in a bottle, and when the boys said to her: 'Sibyl, what do you want?' she replied, 'I want to die.'"

07-25-2006, 07:52 PM	#6
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	Well, see here. . .one thing I see is that realistically, the slaves could not have caught up to the slavers that night to rescue the kids in the early morning. I think Imak would figure this out, with his stuff dissapearing and all that. It is especially not likely since for some time after the attack, the slaves have been busy in their ranks with inner problems and haven't even decided if they should go after them. I am not writing any character that is part of the slave group, but it is my humble opinion (not given so humbly now, I know, but I'm still alright with it being ignored) is that the slaves should not be there for a joint rescue. If you think you can somehow figure out how the slaves could be there, then that would be fine, I guess. . .but, really, I can't think. Didn't the slavers attack late at night? Here. . .let me draw the times out. What season is it? Okay, between 8 and 9 it becomes dark. Watches are set. Two - three hours each? I'm not sure which, I would guess two hours. First watch - 9-11 Second watch - 11-1 Third watch - 1-3 The boy, Adnan, has promised to watch well, but he doesn't and doze off. But a chap who's promised to stay awake will, for most of the time. So, the slavers attack around 2:30 a.m. They're in and out by 2:45. The slave camp is set into uproar for at least an hour. By then, it's 3:45. Dawn is in two hours, or two and a half. The slavers rode for about an hour, too, and they didn't ride slowly. I don't know what sort of time there is after that. We've crammed a lot into that time. How many slavers are there? Can the fellowship just march in, kill the three guards, and take them without being really opposed? Where are the rest? Are they actually going to go off searching for their missing goods? I guess it really wouldn’t take that long to haul the two kids out of the pit. They can take care of the guards quietly, the elf, Dorran, and Rog can manage that. Then Aiwendil and Vror can rush in to help. Two people can drop down into the pit to unbind the children and lift them up so that the others on top can pull them out. Athwen and Carl will not be needed for this approach of rescue, both being unfit for dragging the kids out of the pit like that and also unable to jump back out again. On the ride out away from camp (do they know in which direction the slaves are?) the children can be put up onto a horse in front of another rider – one strong enough to hold them up as they run the horses. The children are probably not used to riding and they will also be worn out and liable to slip off if not stabilized. I have no time to think further than this on the matter. What I have just said is only my opinion stated at length. Take it or leave it as you think best. You can do whatever you think best. As for what you wrote answering my question. . .I guess it does. Kind of. But if Imak is getting robbed right and left, would he just pack up camp and move out, in the hopes of being able to out-run whoever is pestering him? Also, I know that he wouldn’t kill Kwell, but goodness knows what a man like that out of temper will do when he knows his limits, and when his limits allow certain brutalities to be done. But there really doesn’t seem to be much time, which is good. . . Goodness, the more I talk, the more confused I get and feel like I’m running circles. There are so many people to think about in this. Has what I just said made any sense? I hope it did, because I’m leaving now. I’ll do more brainstorming for you tomorrow when I’ve more time. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

07-25-2006, 04:19 PM	#1
Durelin Estelo dagnir, Melo ring Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,063	I think Vror will have to be a brave soul since he probably hasn't been when it comes to the horse he's been stuck on...or, well, clinging to, or something of that nature...

07-25-2006, 05:55 PM	#4
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	So sorry to have been silent at this end. But my tribe and I were all under the dental drill and have just returned from our adventure! Thank you too, for taking the time to get us all coordinated. Am I to understand that the dwarf has also been volunteered? I could try to get some thing written in the next few days, but I am thinking that I might not find a sizable chunk of time until Friday evening. Child, I will be sending you a PM shortly.