WWJ X: Hithlum Zydeco Blues; Hísilómë in Hísimë

[Mithalwen]

Some of us tried our best. Obviously it wasn't good enough but people who live in glass houses.....

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I didn't do as much as I could have done but I had a lot of other, more pressing, matters to attend to last week. I certainly wasn't free enough to get obsessed by the game. I think we must always bear* in mind that it's just a game and we should try to put having fun ahead of meticulously getting everything right.

*used the right one this time.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I didn't do as much as I could have done but I had a lot of other, more pressing, matters to attend to last week. I certainly wasn't free enough to get obsessed by the game. I think we must always bear* in mind that it's just a game and we should try to put having fun ahead of meticulously getting everything right.

*used the right one this time.

Oh Eomer..you are no fun anymore ...

[Diamond18]

Eomer speaks sense. I followed this whole game though I didn't play in it, and I didn't play because I knew I wouldn't have the time to throw myself completely into it, and I knew that if I didn't, I would spend most of my available time defending myself for not being able to throw myself completely into it. Werewolf these days seems to be getting more and more about grading other people's playing until it's not fun anymore -- the fear of being deemed stupid, useless, lazy, or reprehensible because you can't live up to other people's exacting standards overrides any enjoyment. So I've decided it's better not to play at all if I don't have the time to be (or inclination to reject real life in favor of) totally immersing myself. And that's sad, because I really have had fun with Werewolf.

[Roa_Aoife]

I didn't do as much as I could have done but I had a lot of other, more pressing, matters to attend to last week. I certainly wasn't free enough to get obsessed by the game. I think we must always bear* in mind that it's just a game and we should try to put having fun ahead of meticulously getting everything right.

Check my post count- I was barely around at all, especially compared to my other games, where I usually compete with Nogrod and Lommy for highest post count. I spent the whole week moving into a new apartment, job hunting, helping my fiance with his new job, and planning a wedding. ON TOP OF SCHOOL. Yet I was still one of the most vocal people in the game.

I followed this whole game though I didn't play in it, and I didn't play because I knew I wouldn't have the time to throw myself completely into it, and I knew that if I didn't, I would spend most of my available time defending myself for not being able to throw myself completely into it. Werewolf these days seems to be getting more and more about grading other people's playing until it's not fun anymore -- the fear of being deemed stupid, useless, lazy, or reprehensible because you can't live up to other people's exacting standards overrides any enjoyment. So I've decided it's better not to play at all if I don't have the time to be (or inclination to reject real life in favor of) totally immersing myself. And that's sad, because I really have had fun with Werewolf.

No one here has said stupid, useless, or lazy. (well, except Nogrod, but how is that any different than the norm?) It's not about grading. It's constructive criticism, something that you've never seemed to be able to take. What's the point of this whole post-game discussion, if not to point out what went right and what went wrong? What would you prefer we do with it? Give hollow two-faced compliments for the sake of politeness? We aren't little kids. (Most of us.) We are, for the most part, adults or young adults who should be able to handle someone pointing out that they didn't do as well as they could.

And I believe you've heard me say this many times before- if you don't think you'll be able to give the necessary time to the game, don't sign up. It's not about wether or not you want to have fun or not get accused of not participating, it's about consideration for your fellow players, and wether or not your going to give them a good game. The measure of a game is only partly the mod's responsibility. The rest is our own doing.

Everyone in this game is known, to me at least, as a very good werewolf player, with great skill. We are all highly intelligent people, capable of great games. This game we were all under par. We've all done better than this in the past. When that happens, the best thing you can do is to look for what went wrong, and decide how you can do better next time, instead of whining about how harsh we're being.

[Diamond18]

My point was that it's just a game and if you take it too seriously you zap a bit of the fun out of it for the people around you. Then it's no longer a game, it's something altogether less "fun and games" and more "this will be going on your transcript and/or résumé."

Hey, you win some, you lose some. In some games people are really "on" and others they're not. Sometimes the village wins and sometimes the wolves win. I can understand Nogrod's frustration (even though I think the attempt to send everyone on guilt-trips is quite over the top) as he was on the losing team but you could at least accept your win with a positive attitude instead of complaining that it was too easy.

Anyway, you completely missed my point, it isn't about constructive critiscm vs. hollow compliments, it's about stopping to realize when in life these things actually matter enough to keep going at them like a dog with a bone. There's a difference between realizing where people won or lost games (whichever side they're on) and complaining about it at length. I was just reacting to the decidedly whiney or condeming tone to many of the posts, and I thought that someone who didn't play in this particular game could stand up for the idea that losing (or winning too easily) isn't the end of the world.

And I believe you've heard me say this many times before- if you don't think you'll be able to give the necessary time to the game, don't sign up. It's not about wether or not you want to have fun or not get accused of not participating, it's about consideration for your fellow players, and wether or not your going to give them a good game.

This game had trouble gaining players. Many people signed up because they were asked to. I mean, people were being PMed to join, me included, and I felt really bad about declining. But you can't tell people that if they're not prepared to satisfy you, they shouldn't play, unless you are the mod.

It's constructive criticism, something that you've never seemed to be able to take.

Yes, Roa, because you've seen me in life, with school, work, etc. No. You've seen me playing an internet game. A bit of fun and recreation. I just don't like flagellation with my fun, and I'm not the only one around here who feels that way.

[Formendacil]

Okay, I think we're all aware of the Diamond/Roa vendetta regarding WW playing styles... so enough out of you two. Let someone else do the arguing.

Though I admit the validity of Roa's arguments, and can see where she's coming from, I definitely come down on Diamond's side of the argument. I am going to be online at A,B, and C times of day, and I'll do what I can during those times, and I'll make sure I vote (well, except for that one moment of lapsed memory during Cailin's game, after which I was killed by Jenny anyway...). I'm not going to play by anybody's conventions, but what the rules require and I myself stipulate.

You guys wonder why I go on and on about Day 1s? My post back there ingame- the one in which I was accused of backpedalling my first post's statements- was perfectly true to life.

And I DO largely do it to tweak people's noses. You tell me how to play, and I'm going to ignore you. I've been Werewolfing long enough that I think I know how the game's played. And if I die on Day 1 or so... well that's REALLY disappointing, but I'll take it in stride, 'cause I sure ain't changing my style just to suit you lot.

And changing my style would be equally suspicious anyway...

Seriously, no matter what you do... there's going to be a winner and a loser. (Well, except in my game....)

And to expect the same commitment from every player, every time is just... foolish. It's summer, people have lives. I suspect if you look at WW VII, or other games from last summer, you won't see "Duelling Wizards" levels of intensity.

[Macalaure]

I really don't see what the current quarrel is about.

Of course, playing Werewolf is about fun.

But, of course, as it is with any other game as well, playing is most fun if everybody is trying to play at their best.

And, of course, as soon as it is only about playing the best one can, the fun goes down.
The truth is somewhere in between. I think this is quite common sense, after all.


And Diamond, Nogrod is not trying to send us on guilt-trips (at least this is how I understand it). Almost everybody wasn't playing at or near his/her best, and he was a little disgruntled that nobody actually discussed why this was the case and everybody just accepted it.