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05-27-2006, 09:21 AM | #1 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 19
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Fate of the Nazgul?
Hi! I was just wondering what would be the ultimate fate of the Nazgul after the destruction of the One Ring, do you think, or has Tolkien ever stated what it was.
Although it is generally accepted they were destroyed, or diminished, what would then be their fate? The Nine were orgininally kings of Men, so would they have shared the fate of Men (although we don't know what that is) or would simply have been disembodied and powerless as Sauron? Just a thought |
05-27-2006, 10:58 AM | #2 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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Make up your own story - its more fun. Don't worry if it doesn't 'fit' with the 'official' version in The Sil or the other stuff 'unpublished'in Tolkien's lifetime - not, that there is an 'official' version. I think the implication is that they were all destroyed when their Rings were. After death if there was anything left of them spiritually they would have gone to Mandos & then beyond the Circles of the World, which is the fate of Men.
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06-10-2006, 03:35 AM | #3 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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When the Nazgul are destroyed there's a line about their voices not being heard again in that age of the world.
Which lasted about 2 years... ...eeeeenteresting.
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06-10-2006, 04:41 AM | #4 | |
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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That line reffers only to the Witch-king, once it was killed by Eowyn .
Edit: it is worth noting that in the "Ring goes south" chapter, Gandalf says: Quote:
Last edited by Raynor; 06-10-2006 at 01:03 PM. |
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07-06-2006, 04:40 AM | #5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: in my own little world
Posts: 142
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But do they go in the Halls of Mandos--the separate space for men? I mean, they were men, only they were bewitched and perverted by Sauron.
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07-19-2006, 01:53 PM | #6 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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Or their spirits just wander in Limbo.
well they could also be sent to the Void, i have played one scenario where the Nazgul are trying to reform and open the void again. its was interesting for sure
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07-19-2006, 03:08 PM | #7 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Well, technically weren't they already dead? I take it as the "Limbo" was their presence as Nazgul on Middle-earth, and I believe when Sauron "died", they died too. Or in other words, their spirits were released...I'm not sure where I stand though on whether the spirits vanished, went to Mandos, or lingered pathlessly, unlike their limbo on Middle-earth.
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"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
07-20-2006, 06:47 AM | #8 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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what i meant by them having to remain in limbo, would be that the nazgul's spirits are to far past redemption and must endure the agony of being in Limbo, being alone, ignored, and unthought of, and much watch everything that happens and can't do anything about it.
so basically they were to evil to be given a final rest and their spirits must wander the earth for eternity. almost like common day ghosts if you will. oh and technically they weren't dead, their lifespan just basically went beyond normal due to Saurons malice, the Nazgul's human bodies corroded away but their Spirits, that were entwined with Sauron, remain, so if we are speaking teachnically, the Nazgul aren't dead because they never died, Their Souls are still there to take the place.
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07-20-2006, 08:12 AM | #9 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, D. C., USA
Posts: 299
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Quote:
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But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door. |
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07-20-2006, 01:29 PM | #10 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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maybe i didn't explain before, Nazgul were evil, its torture to remain in limbo, so as a punishment to the Nazgul, Mandos forced them to remain in limbo.
so its more of a punishment, like when Sauron's shadow headed toward valinor but got blown away by a eastward wind.
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07-20-2006, 01:54 PM | #11 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, D. C., USA
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Quote:
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But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door. |
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07-21-2006, 07:03 AM | #12 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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*sigh*
they were men, the bodies of the men they use to be have long corroded away and their evil souls remain, so i can put up the argument that they are no longer men, they are twisted souls that use to be men. so with that the Valar can deny them and make them stay in limbo oh and what about the Numenor, they were given longer life by the Valar, so technically their date of deathes were prolonged by the Valar.
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07-21-2006, 07:42 AM | #13 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, D. C., USA
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True, their bodies were men, but so were their souls. Evil men, to be sure, but men none-the-less. I suspect this is something we will never agree on.
Quote:
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But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door. |
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07-21-2006, 01:29 PM | #14 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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Well yeah, but they didn't choose their death, Aragorn wasn't like "i think i'll die when i'm 100 something", what i am basically trying to say is that Sauron corrupted the souls of the Nazgul, thus they lost their men-soulness and became shadows.
Sauron changed them bascially, turning them from men into darker things.
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Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
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07-21-2006, 03:27 PM | #15 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Well...there is no denying that they were men, they were ensnared, they were controlled souls. But, I must agree with radagastly when he says they had to eventually be tried in some way-- if they were just souls you really wouldn't have been able to see them. But since one could physically see them (as their forms were real enough to have a black cloth cover around them) you can't really say they were just souls in limbo. Their man "essence" was still there...so once they died, in being controlled souls, I would think they would be tried. Whereas with Sauron, he was the controller of the evil...so he was turned away.
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"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
07-21-2006, 09:56 PM | #16 | ||||
Laconic Loreman
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Quote:
But, as far as I know this only applies to the Ainur who were the one's able to inhabit and construct other bodies. There existance in Middle-earth was because of the Ring, Gandalf says that Sauron's power was tied in them: Quote:
Quote:
However, I find something Gandalf says to be interesting: Quote:
If that is the case, then that offers another possibility for the fate of the Nazgul, but I fear raises more baffling questions. The Witch-King was different than the rest of his Nazgul brethren, he was granted extra demonic force in the battle of Pelennor Fields by Sauron, the other Nazgul were not. So would this only apply to the Lord of the Nazgul. And also, we have to question is Gandalf even right about the Witch-King's fate?
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Fenris Penguin
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07-21-2006, 10:49 PM | #17 |
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fate of the nazgul
maybe the witchking's spirit survived because he actually died before the one ring was destroyed
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07-22-2006, 10:31 AM | #18 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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Well don't forget the fords too at Rivendell, the Nazgul were swept away there.
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