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Old 06-23-2006, 06:50 PM   #1
Formendacil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selmo
Formendacil calls Elwë, Olwë, and Elmo, brothers. Were they true brothers, in the sense that they were born of the same parents? Or were they amongst the first Elves, created not born? In that case, they may not share the same genes but be called brothers through alliance and affection.
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They are true brothers. Tolkien never once directly states that they were among the first Elves born, while he definitely states that they were brothers (Elmo is specifically said to the younger brother, among other things, a fact that is not likely if they awoke). Furthermore, the shared silver hair of Elwë, Olwë's daughter Eärwen, Elmo's grandson Celeborn (and possibly some others unknown), which is only found among these Elves- and their said-to-be kinsman, Círdan.
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Old 06-24-2006, 02:12 AM   #2
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Tolkien never once directly states that they were among the first Elves born, while he definitely states that they were brothers
Moreover, Thingol did not have a wife from the start. According to the Cuivienyarna, the legend of the awakening of the elves, Quendi and Eldar, HoME XI, each first elf had beside his/her "destined spouse".
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:04 PM   #3
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In some cultures inbreeding and incest isn't thought of as bad.

Look at Cleopatra and her brother Ptolemy. They married.

Look at the British Royal family. They seem to be normal.
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Old 06-29-2006, 03:32 AM   #4
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While it's true that members of the British Royal Family have usually bred with distant cousins from what might be called the European Royal Family, they have, from time to time, introduced sufficient fresh blood-lines to avoid the consequences of too-close in-breeding.

Recent examples of carefully selected fresh genes have been provided by Elizabeth Bows-Lyons, the present Queen's mother, who's conections to the Royal Family were very distant, and Diana Spenser, the Queen's daughter-in-law, who's conections were even more remote.
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Old 06-29-2006, 08:48 AM   #5
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Another danger of inbreeding, besides birth defects, is homogeny. After time, all of the genetic information is equality distributed, meaning that everybody is genetically just like everyone else. Inbreeding makes the population susceptible to disease, as no individual is much different that any other, and so everybody's either resistant or not . One of the benefits of genetic diversity is that when things change, like the environment, or a disease shows up, you might have a percentage of the population that is more suited and might survive to fight another day.

But maybe this explains the elves, as they seem to resist change, and when the environment is not to their liking, they fade away into the West, unlike Men and Ents, who are more adaptable.
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Old 06-29-2006, 01:06 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by alatar
But maybe this explains the elves, as they seem to resist change, and when the environment is not to their liking, they fade away into the West, unlike Men and Ents, who are more adaptable.
I think quite the contrary is true; the elves are more adapted to 'living' than all other incarnates, given that their doom is to abide (in incarnate form, desireably) till the end of Ea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Aman and mortal Men, Myths Transformed
The nature of an Elvish fea was to endure the world to the end, and an Elvish hroa was also longeval by nature
True enough, there is fading, due to the marring of Melkor (same source):
Quote:
For they hold that the failure of their hroar to endure in vitality unwearied as long as their fear - a process which was not observed until the later ages - is due to the Marring of Arda, and comes of the Shadow, and of the taint of Melkor that touches all the matter (or hroa) of Arda, if not indeed of all Ea
and due to the consumation of hroa by fea:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelfwine's preamble, Laws and customs of the Eldar, Later Quenta Silmarillion, HoME XI
Moreover their body and spirit are not separated but coherent. As the weight of the years, with all their changes of desire and thought, gathers upon the spirit of the Eldar, so do the impulses and moods of their bodies change. This the Eldar mean when they speak of their spirits consuming them; and they say that ere Arda ends all the Eldalie on earth will have become as spirits invisible to mortal eyes, unless they will to be seen by some among Men into whose minds they may enter directly
Among other reasons of the fading, we can count the doom of Men to rule Arda and the curse of the noldor:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Of the flight of the Noldor, Silmarillion
And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken
(however, I think we can discount this at least in part, given that it is stated that curse was laid to rest after the war of wrath)
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
I think quite the contrary is true; the elves are more adapted to 'living' than all other incarnates, given that their doom is to abide (in incarnate form, desireably) till the end of Ea.
This is the text to which I refer, and maybe I'm just not reading it right:

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
For Ents are more like Elves: less interested in themselves than Men are, and better at getting inside other things. And yet again Ents are more like Men, more changeable than Elves are, and quicker at taking the colour of the outside, you might say. Or better than both: for they are steadier and keep their minds on things longer
Now, those are Treebeard's words to Merry and Pippin, and so suspect, as Treebeard may not have an objective point of view. But it would seem that he and I agree, as I too see the Elves trying to embalm parts of Middle Earth, and when finally time catches up with that place (i.e. the fading of Lorien), the elves do not adapt, but move on.
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