Friends of Nimrodel: Tapestry of Dreams - Discussion

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I've read it. In what ways do you see it applying?

Disclaimer: Must be missing some obvious connections but here's a first cut:

Charity (agape) is a love towards one's neighbour which does not depend on any loveable qualities that the object of love possesses. Lewis sees charity as a specifically Christian virtue, and the chapter on the subject focuses on the need of subordinating the natural loves to the love of God.

Agape, the disinterested desire for the best for The Unlovable Other: Ædegard, grudgingly perhaps, towards Mellondu. Also Liornung towards Mellondu/Amroth; and Bella towards Amroth. Ravion towards Mellonin, to a degree. Liornung towards everybody. How did a Christian fiddler find his way into Fourth age Rohan?; but there he is.

Eros is love in the sense of 'being in love'. This is distinct from sexuality, which Lewis calls Venus, although he does spend time discussing sexual activity and its spiritual significance in both a pagan and a Christian sense. He warns against the danger of elevating Eros to the status of a god, but he also praises it as an indifferent appreciation of the beloved as opposed to any pleasure that can be obtained from them.

Eros, the fascination of The Other for what they are: Amroth & Nimrodel; Imrazor & Mithrellas; Ædegard & Leafa; Nethwador & Bella. And, I suppose, Mellonin and Ravion, though they fight it like cat'n'dog.

Friendship (philia) is a strong bond existing between people who share a common interest or activity. Lewis explicitly says that his definition of Friendship is narrower than mere Companionship; Friendship in his sense only exists if there is something for the Friendship to be about.

Phileo: Friendship borne of a common passion &/or goal: Erebemlin & Taitheneb & Amroth; Mellonin, Raefindan, & Ravion; Bella & Liornung; in an odd way, Liornung, Bella, and reluctant Ædegard...

Affection (storge) is fondness through familiarity, especially between family members or people who have otherwise found themselves together by chance.

and... Storge: affection borne of (grudging) toleration of another's company for an extended period of time: Many of the other relationships. Mortals toward Nethwador. Aeron & everyone else; Ædegard & everyone else; maybe, eventually, Erebemlin & all those semi-pathetic mortals...

.....I don't mean to derail this into a theological/ philosophical debate-- really I don't! It's just that this subject is near & dear to my own heart, having thought extensively about it in other terms. Lewis' terms are a nice framework to work with too, and his verbal illustrations are both delightful and peircing.


My fascination with the ideas began one day when my neice asked me, "So how do you know when you are in love?" Red alert, red alert (she was thirteen, extremely impressionable.) One of these days I'm writing a novel about it. In a sense, this game is about that too; the differences between a crush and a commitment; between a friendship and a loyalty; between an allegiance and devotion; willing and unwilling service, and all of the intricacies thereof; I could go on & on.

The current possibilities between Mellondu and Erebemlin has me on the edge of my seat...


EDIT Yeah, I'm on a bit of a roll, but anyway... I love Lewis's illustration comparing love & commitment to diving into the water and then swimming. The dive (like falling in love) is exhilarating, shocking, rushing, overwhelming. The person who goes from relationship to relationship looking for the rush of romance over and over is like the guy who keeps diving into different pools, but never swimming. He doesn't ever cross the water; he just splashes a lot. If you want a realtionship, you've got to walk out the commitment-- you've got to swim. And that takes effort, zeal, commitment, energy. Work. That's just an awesome way to look at it.

My niece said love was when you can't stop thinking about another person. I said, yeah but that's just a crush. You should only marry once, but you'll have a crush on scores of people before you die... She looked shocked. Why is that surprising...? Eros versus storge & agape. Eros is by nature fleeting; if it's not augmented by storge or phileo or (preferably) agape or (even better) a combination of all three, then the relationship wanes.

With storge-- the (sometimes grudging) affection borne of familiarity-- he keeps talking about the family dog's affection for the family. I love it. Jorje rises like cream to the top!

Anyway-- exploring the intricacies of relationships has been a big one with me.

Who do you love, I hope it's me
I've been changing as you can plainly see....

I met all the girls and I loved myself a few,
and to my surprise
Like everything else that I've been through
it opened up my eyes

Garbage lyrics, super-catchy tune, and extremely dangerous world view.

Yeah.. and this is tolkien related because??? Ummmm, it all goes back to that other catchy song....
"An elven maid there was of old, a shining star by day..."

..end ramble.