**Comparing Narnia and LotR**

[davem]

Originally Posted by nogrod

But still, I see the the points of my tradition to prevail in his stories, not to my liking in all the cases (womens subordination, the east being the bad - as well as dark people of the south, the individualistic ethos with a catholic writer, the most common symbolism - bearing a strict relation to real symbolic world of the "people of the north" etc.).

As to the 'east being bad' thing, it is inevitable. In Northern myths the West is the place of Paradise/the Otherworld, so Tolkien starts with that (in Beowulf Scyld comes out of, & returns to, the West; when someone dies (or an object stops working), we in England at least say they/it has 'Gone west'. The Immrama of the Celts involve journeys over the Sea into the West). So, Tolkien has his Earthly Paradise in the West.

Now, because there is a geographical location of 'Holiness', which in Tolkien's myth is symbolised by Light, the further away away one moves from that Light the greater the Darkness becomes - hence the decreasing 'enlightenment' of peoples as one moves eastward.

In a Quest story the hero must move into dangerous territory, things must get darker & more perilous. Inevitably with the set up Tolkien has chosen the direction the questing heroes must take is eastward, because that is the direction that moves them away from the Light, & into the Dark. Its not that Tolkien decided 'Right, everybody knows those people in Eastern Europe/Asia are wicked & immoral, so I'll have the baddies in my world in the same geographical location.

Having said that, Tolkien was attempting to use real world Northern European myths & legends, & write 'what really happened', & the greatest threat in the early medieval period were the Huns under Atilla - who does pop up in various legends. Enemies 'invading' from the east & threatening the West with destruction is a common theme in western legend even into the Christian period. Muslim armies swept up into Europe during their early expansionist phase. So, I think Tolkien is mainly using Light/Dark symbolism & overlaying that on his map, but we can't discount the very deep, if mainly unconscious, symbolism of invasion from the East on the Western European mind. The two greatest threats to European civilisation came in the form of violent & unprovoked assaults from Eastern forces bent on conquest & destruction. From this Perspective for a Western audience a threat of destruction coming from the East would feel 'right', because the East is the direction our ancestors always felt was the place of greatest danger. (If one wanted to start an argument one might suggest that Christianity also came from the East & swept away a thriving & highly advanced Western civilisation as well, but I've always tried to avoid controversy on these boards....)

As to 'Women's subordination' well, inevitably that's a result of both Tolkien's cultural background & of the particular type of 'medieval' world he is writing about. Having said that, in comparison to other writers of fantasy of the same, or earlier, period Tolkien's female characters are far ahead of any others in complexity & freedom of action.